The P1N solo tank thread got moved to tank forums, here's why it shouldn't have been.

[Shurrikhan]

Its easier for all the tanks gaslighting healers now.

Admittedly, the shift has kind of made it feel like "We don't need to address problems if we can just sic portions of the community upon other portions thereof. Look! They're saying it wasn't a problem all along. Those narrowly invested in their capacity over the overall health of the game say there's reasonable doubt, so there's no need to change a thing."

[Rhais]

Those narrowly invested in their capacity over the overall health of the game say there's reasonable doubt, so there's no need to change a thing."

Disagreement is not "gaslighting". Not agreeing with the assessment of tank healing capabilities being a major problem for the health of the game is not coming from a position of trying to protect the current state of tanks in every case. Sometimes people just don't come to the same conclusions.

The cause of the complaints from healers is a bit more systemic to the design of the game then some abilities given to the tanks this expansion. There has not been some massive shift in gameplay experience due to the healing capacity tanks now have, and if they are nerfed into a state of being irrelevant or just removed I believe very little would change.

All the problems with healers being discussed around the topic of tank heals have existed before this expansion and will continue to exist if the devs remain committed to the course they are on, regardless of what they do with tanks.

[ForteNightshade]

I'd see the problem being more with the pathetic outgoing damage. Even if you nerf tanks, the outgoing damage is still pathetic. Healers will still be bored. Tanks will be bored. Nothing changes.

They gave tanks and heals the tools to handle large amounts of damage. Great, I'm all for it ...except where's the large amounts of damage?

This is the root problem I was arguing in the other thread. Nerfing tank sustain wouldn't accomplish anything except make the Healers toss the odd oGCD in between their riveting Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis spam. Furthermore, it just lessens the gameplay of tanks without actually solving the problem.

Unfortunately, with the runaway success FF has been having. I don't see the dev team feeling a need to change anything despite how horrendous their healing design is. What's frustrating is we aren't even asking for some crazy high damage numbers. I just want to heal once in a blue moon and/or have some meaningful gameplay beyond spamming 1 a bazillion times.

[Shurrikhan]

Disagreement is not "gaslighting". Not agreeing with the assessment of tank healing capabilities being a major problem for the health of the game is not coming from a position of trying to protect the current state of tanks in every case. Sometimes people just don't come to the same conclusions.

Oh, I agree that it's a much larger systemic issue first and foremost. Nor do I think tank self-healing is an inherently bad thing. It's another means of sustain, and compared to percentile mitigation alone, is arguably both more fun to play around and has more carry and recovery potential without being any stronger in "real" content.

My issue is with a role getting increases to its maximal eHP, its sustain, and its damage, to a degree that greatly outshine the other roles' increases. Even if content had increased its damage dealt to situate tanks' increased power, that shift in relative power between roles wouldn't quite be warranted. Give me less passive mitigation, more dependence on skill, perhaps a trickier rotation, etc., and I'd be all for EW's increases to (non-DRK) tanks' self-sustain. Done well, it's more active impact, it's more to do, and it's more fun (though that's truer for the more sharply timeable self-heals than the likes of Aurora or bs like Storm's Path, Souleater, or Brutal Shell).

But let's not pretend that thread isn't by now dotted with players saying that it wouldn't matter even if, say, Warrior could solo current Savage content (all while DRK can only be edgy in a corner), or any outside impacts of that above shift in power is irrelevant to the larger game or that 'Warriors should just keep doing as Warriors do' (as if that hadn't changed in degree between ShB and EW).

[Lyth]

The ultimate evolution of this game will be eight DPS players without HP bars doing as much damage as they can while performing pass-fail raidwipe mechanics. It's not that they've made tanks too powerful this expansion. It's that they've rendered the skill level of the player in that tank slot completely irrelevant.

Oh, and there are now reports of an 8 WAR P1S clear in the tank thread, if you're interested.

[Deceptus]

Disagreement is not "gaslighting". Not agreeing with the assessment of tank healing capabilities being a major problem for the health of the game is not coming from a position of trying to protect the current state of tanks in every case. Sometimes people just don't come to the same conclusions.

The fact that tanks can solo current dungeon bosses while dead party members are mere spectators is proof of bad game design.

The fact that EX content can be done without a healer due to the rampant self heals across all the non-healer jobs is proof of bad game design.

The fact that a normal raid boss can be solod at all if proof of bad game design.

Respectfully, saying otherwise is simply white knighting. It is gaslighting, saying a problem doesn't exist when it CLEARLY does.

Oh, and there are now reports of an 8 WAR P1S clear in the tank thread, if you're interested.

Saw that as well. Bet they're being begged not to release that video at this point ><

[RinaShinomiya]

In other news, all tanks cleared P1N solo except DRK.
So yeah, its not a WAR issue but we already knew that much.

[Rhais]

The fact that tanks can solo current dungeon bosses while dead party members are mere spectators is proof of bad game design.

The fact that EX content can be done without a healer due to the rampant self heals across all the non-healer jobs is proof of bad game design.

The fact that a normal raid boss can be solod at all if proof of bad game design.

Respectfully, saying otherwise is simply white knighting. It is gaslighting, saying a problem doesn't exist when it CLEARLY does.



Saw that as well. Bet they're being begged not to release that video at this point ><

You obviously did not bother to read the rest of my post, or have major reading comprehension problems. I agree there are very large design issues with the game, however tank heals are neither the root cause or major factor of the bad design.

[ASkellington]

You obviously did not bother to read the rest of my post, or have major reading comprehension problems. I agree there are very large design issues with the game, however tank heals are neither the root cause or major factor of the bad design.

No, but tank sustain highlights and boldens these issues.

Fact is, they shouldn't have given tanks more sustain if they weren't going to increase the healing requirements. Now they're in the position where they either have to:

- nerf/remove tank sustain because they aren't going to increase unavoidable damage which, I'll note with bold italics and underline, will fix absolutely nothing as we'll just be going back to square one

- or fix encounter design to match the fact that, tanks have heals, dps also have heals (outside of BB and SW), and we have an entire healer role on top of that

I don't envy them for trying to address this issue, but they're the ones that caused it in the first place. Healers have been complaining there wasn't enough to heal as is, and then they made that worse with this expansion. It was a dumb decision on their part.

[Ayche]

Thread surfing it can be funny to jump from one decrying tank healing and when you jump into another, they talk about how maybe they should give some tanks even more self-healing.

Anyway, considering what P1N is, I would not be super concerned until you tell me about like P2N being soloed.