Maybe we should not have new jobs in 7.0

[justinhuang]

I hope this message will bring some sort of comfort. Right now as I understand from community feedback, it is especially Dark Knight and Dancer who are the two most suffering jobs, each in their own terms. Dancer as you well know, was even a new job in 5.0 and even from that point onwards, it was evident their damage output just, wasn't suffice. This was especially notable during solo deep dungeons.

Dark knight has a whole list of issues I cannot comment on as I am not a main DRK. I also feel that White Mage, because it was such a success in 5.0, they may have overlooked it in 6.0 I can only think of that. Because it is a fact that White Mage was superior and everyone said "please don't change white mage" I hope the dev team will read that when we say "please don't change this job" we mean it in the current state, as everything we expect to be enhanced in the next, or with mild change, or with added extras. However, to make what made the job superior in the prior expansion suddenly feels awful is... not a good feeling for anyone playing it and series of complaints starts before the first savage even rolls out, and as I mained white mage in 5.x I feel this way so I am now Reaper.

My point also I am making or trying to make is, is that even when they bring out or do not bring out new jobs, nobody will be 100% happy.
This time, they did in my opinion SO GOOD on job balances and play styles that is makes me embarrassed to complain. WHM for instance, is only MP issue, and misery feels ... very bad somehow (I may be wrong) however, let's say they do not release new jobs, and then.... it will be worse.

Because then they will start to accuse them as 'lazy' because honest truth nobody is ever satisfied not even in this game. So they can only try and improve through feedback, regardless of new jobs, which btw, are totally disconnected from current jobs.

You are right and I too believe we will never hit 100% satisfaction but much appreciate it if we ever hit it. We have to give them applause for the things that we believe they did right and have a constructive criticism regarding classes that may be clunky. We cannot stop the "not so mindful" and petty complain but we can always be the one who provide them, hopefully, useful information for future plans.

[RyuDragnier]

Mechanically and balance wise I believe they've done an incredible job so far. If I have any complaints they're reserved for both DRK and SCH, who feel like they could use reworks at this point to shore up some issues they have. Too many to list for DRK, but SCH needs to have Aetherflow dropped and exclusively use the Fairy Gauge for paying for its moves. Make the fairy automatically upgrade to Seraph at 80, have Fey Union give the fairy a small healing buff while forcing them to focus target one ally for healing for X amount of seconds, turn Dissipation into the gauge dumping move.

[justinhuang]

DRK doesn't have a whole list of issues, at least not to the point of needing a MCH or SMN scale rework, which it arguably already got. In fact it's pretty good for what it's supposed to be, which is an off-global centric tank where the GCD rotation is not the main focus. Changing Living Dead would be simple but there has been the opportunity to change it for multiple expansions now and SE seems resolved to keep it.

Although it works for what it's supposed to be, it's often a matter of debate whether the lack of GCD focus makes it boring, but I don't think that suddenly means it has a long list of issues. The GCD simplicity can be a good thing in some cases (such as raids where you want to focus on mechanics) and not a good thing (in dungeons where it could get boring).

You are right and I agree to some degree. I like the SHB DRK, from my humble opinion, but I think they might move a little too far for number of OGCDs. They can always improve some of them like the new Salted Earth explode on its own if we forget to press, Bloodweapon to 5 stacks.

Shadowbringer is a niche skill but it doesnt bother me. Let say they to delete it and add an enhance edge OGCD, it may satisfy more players actually. What makes some other tanks feel better is their loving CD gets better. For example, GNB heart of stone is amazing for what it is. With the buff in EW, the amazing just got better. Not only it mitigate but it also auto heal on specific heath or heal on expire. PLD enhance sheltron heals and also heals on spell rotation. These kind of enhancement actually feels good to use. It's encourage you to use it correctly.

Currently drk had an oblation that feels meh. It's decent but not blown away. TBN on the other hand gets no change and still tie to dps loss if doesnt break. So, for argument sake, it looks bland compare to other tank.

[justinhuang]

If getting no new Job(s) means more focus on already existing ones, then it would be a great tradeoff.

Jobdesign in FFXIV is very basic and most of them dont even have any impact when using powerful Abilities, its either just a big dmg number showing up, or a flashbang animation happening, thats it.
Little things like giving for example, MCH a small recoil effect when using the Drill by simply pushing the user backwards a little would already make powerful Skills actually be powerful.

And what do we get on expansion releases? Hotfixes that should have happened 2 Expansions ago or in the middle of a existing one, multiple charges and filler Abilities and Passives like enhanced Unmend. Those changes aren't expansionworthy at all, and this trend is going on since Stormblood and only gets worse.

A good Story, will NEVER be able to compensate for lacking Gameplay in a MMO over a long period of time. What good is a Story, if immersion gets completely destroyed by gameplay?Memes aside, Do you remember your first time when you encountered Ifrit, your very first Primal, with all the tension and buildup of the situation, only for it to get completely thrown out of the Window by a Fight that is compareable as fighting a B Rank in the overworld on the same level?

I think Squeenix has ALOT of cleaning up to do with their Game.

ahahhaha push back on a drill. You sure knows a hot take. Not what I would suggest for but understandable for flavor though you may had a nightmare to drill on small platform fight. They make RDM melee counterpart to the flip backward melee same potency for a reason, so the flipping out part just for positioning or style now. Since range players sometime force to fight from a far, push backward me kick them off map or hit the dead wall.

True, expectation standard for ffxiv are increasing and I agree, to some degree too. A good story doesnt compensate lack of gameplay. We see them moving to better normal fight. It's getting more challenge and good mechs but still manageable. We have to applause them for that. Extreme, savage, and ultimate still holds it weight.

[justinhuang]

You do realize that some people are looking forward to new jobs in new expansions, some want new races, and some look for new abilities cause they like new powers. Not to be rude but when new expansions don't have anything it starts to turn the game stale and old. Last thing I want for FFXIV is it getting old, boring, and stale like World of Warcraft cause the devs are too lazy and literally keep, almost the same abilities for 2 expansions in a row.

You do also realize that I understand the value of new jobs hence I wrote "just one". Also, I do not think you're rude to me with your comment .

Back on topic: I wouldn't call them just because they dont release a new class. I think that's going a bit too far. The dev never fail me and I don't think they're going to fail me anytime soon.

I never play wow so I can't comment on that.

[Jybril]

You wouldn't have to feel this way if they knew how to balance jobs.

[Recon1o6]

People would be fine with no new jobs and other areas having content cut If they could see where the resources went which as we seen in shb and ew, is not the case. So stuff is being cut but nothing replacing it.

At the very least, they could do with a shift in job design philosphy away from braindead simplification and homogenisation

The problem isn't lack of resources to design jobs to be fun, its lack of care for anything thats not a caster or melee dps.

[Payadopa]

I would love for them to stop that psychotic degree of balancing and focus on making jobs fun and unique again. Too many jobs in the same role play too similarly and job synergy is pretty much gone apart from the usual yet very boring [increase DPS by X%].
It's too predictable and ultimately boring for me personally. Job design used to be way more fun in my humble opinion.

[Selvokaz]

Have you never played a job based Final Fantasy before? We aren't even 60% through the rotation yet lol.

Jobs as has been demonstrated aren't just built around "Roles" in the party, but sometimes narratives, cultures, themes, which are then assigned a role and thus built to suit that role as an afterthought.

Example: Ninja, is a good example and a bad example of this. If Ninja was introduced later in the development cycle say around heavenward release it's likely that it wouldn't have thief a prerequisite class/job. Yet there is some traditional symbolism there, in that previous installments had thief characters usually evolve into Ninjas, not only in FF but in other similar games as well. Yet what of other cultures in Eorzea that would have had need of ninja-like professions but aren't Japanese inspired? Surely, they wouldn't have just developed the same exact name and skill set. Enter the Assassin job, a job that has lore in previous FF installments namely FFT and FFT Advanced.

Already I could think of a number of differences based on the play style. Ninja focuses
on the use of elemental mudra spells, and quick melee combos. Where as an Assassin would rely more on a wide variety of poisons (DoTs) as well as other debuffs, melee combos that are a bit slower but hit much harder similar to a dragoon.

What of concepts that have already had their groundwork laid out? Such as Geomancer, which has had possibly some of its storied tied into AST and thus could likely be another type of Healer.

Also, job additions don't actually hurt the game. A new DPS doesn't make more work for the healers, or the tanks, nor vice versa. The armor system in the game is such, it doesn't require new or more work for the art/design team as outside of relic armor every job uses equipment based on similarities between their roles/jobs. Even if the job number bloated up more, just like how they did in previous patches, more jobs would become grouped together when it comes to equipment. You've seen it happen already, in the earlier parts of the game there were two armor types Disciples of War and Magic. Then it started to branch out to specialized sets. Using the previous examples Ninja isn't sharing right now so Assassin would obviously fit well there. Geomancer is a healer, healer armor sets would suit it.

Also, look at the success of new jobs every expansion. No one was NOT hyped for new jobs in any previous expansion, you might as well be saying, "Please curb your success so that players can be disappointed MOAR."

[Darkstride]

NIN needs a Job to share gear with, it's the only Job currently that doesn't share it with anyone.

This already should have/could have been addressed when Dancer was added.