Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[aveyond-dreams]

Old SMN had 8 years to prove itself worthy of continuing to exist. After failing on multiple levels, before Shadowbringers bringing it home with a "spectacular" finale, we got a rework. Is it perfect? Not exactly, but given the state of the job prior to 6.0 there was no way to go but up. Hopefully not just SMN but every class can get more of its kit earlier and we can finally see the remaining pantheon added, without the slew of clunky and exhausting mechanical hurdles that were already taken out.

Imagine having to try and justify why such a horribly-received class should be brought back in spirit, and this is the way the group vouching for a return to the old decides to act. I will not be surprised if 7.0 brings with it no caster and instead just a melee, or who knows maybe even a limited job. As it stands now, it makes no sense to further enable a crowd who throw around their elite/complexity! job status at people outside their own bubble, as opposed to something more likeable and approachable like Reaper.

The problem nobody wants to confront with that real issue is that it basically needs another small rework. There's nothing you can stack on top of current SMN to remedy the problem because it's an inflexible concrete foundation of boredom cycled every 2 minutes. Anything added in an attempt to remedy the issues the job has would have to significantly modify a part of this foundation, or it would be fruitless.

No, it absolutely does not, what we need are new abilities to weave in and out along with the remaining summons. Shiva/Ramuh/Leviathan or Sophia/Sephirot/Zurvan, either trio works. A bar to charge up to eventually summon Alexander or Odin. Upgrading the aetherflow charges to one-off attacks from Lakshmi or Susano. The possibilities are quite literally endless.

[tearagion]

Imagine trying to show and discuss the real issues of the rework and having a "SMN connoisseur" bringing the same pointless argument of "SMN in previous iterations of FF blah blah blah..." every time, when it doesn't matter in the slightest how it plays in other FF right now. The real issue being how to make current SMN a more engaging job and not this bland flashy thing.

The problem nobody wants to confront with that real issue is that it basically needs another small rework. There's nothing you can stack on top of current SMN to remedy the problem because it's an inflexible concrete foundation of boredom cycled every 2 minutes. Anything added in an attempt to remedy the issues the job has would have to significantly modify a part of this foundation, or it would be fruitless.

.

nobody asked

[Aikaal]

No, it absolutely does not, what we need are new abilities to weave in and out along with the remaining summons. Shiva/Ramuh/Leviathan or Sophia/Sephirot/Zurvan, either trio works. A bar to charge up to eventually summon Alexander or Odin. Upgrading the aetherflow charges to one-off attacks from Lakshmi or Susano. The possibilities are quite literally endless.

That'd be pure cosmetics, not interesting and wouldn't anything. An upgraded Bahamut in for of Neo-Bahamut or Zero-Bahamut could work. But no, I think the current elementral trio summon is good enough. The problem is the lack of engagement on the job right now, you can put lazy fixes with potency buffs, it won't help how awful it feels to play the job. You can have 3 different summons for Phoenix, it won't help the issues with the gameplay. Gameplay > esthetics at this point, I don't think people want them to invest ressources and money on cosmetics right now.

[Xander_Diabolos]

I'd like to see a version of Summoner where you choose which one to have out and each have their benefits/drawbacks or maybe replace useless ones when you get to certain levels.
Level 5 Carbuncle > Level 60 Bahamut
Kinda like how Straight Shot upgrades to Refulgent Arrow for Bard.

Make Ifrit single target damage for bosses
Make Titan give shield/defense (for solo)
Make Garuda AoE damage for large pulls
Add Ramuh for a stun option (even though it only works the first time)
You could still have Pheonix for some heals/revive and remove Resurrection (I mean red mage doesn't get it until 64...)
Would be cool to see Fenrir as a summon as well... just saying...

[Shuuli]

Lets play a game, it's called "You have two seconds to tell me what colour these orbs are".

This... 100% describes my experience on why i LOVE P2S I CAN SEE in it.
P1S, P3S, is absolute face on the screen, eyes out of your skull to be able to see xD. My eyes legit feel tired after P3S runs. I needed to change most of my settings on visuals to be able to run this raid. Maybe I am just old. I already have bad eyesight, this aint helps for sure.

I always say this. New summoner looks really fancy, I really like the "cool" aspect of it. But you must tune down those pretty effects or you really will not see anything in some of the fights... so then whats the point of it being pretty if I cannot see it?

[Exodus-E]

I'd like to see a version of Summoner where you choose which one to have out and each have their benefits/drawbacks or maybe replace useless ones when you get to certain levels.
Level 5 Carbuncle > Level 60 Bahamut
Kinda like how Straight Shot upgrades to Refulgent Arrow for Bard.

Make Ifrit single target damage for bosses
Make Titan give shield/defense (for solo)
Make Garuda AoE damage for large pulls
Add Ramuh for a stun option (even though it only works the first time)
You could still have Pheonix for some heals/revive and remove Resurrection (I mean red mage doesn't get it until 64...)
Would be cool to see Fenrir as a summon as well... just saying...

So much wrong here...

1. Adjusting Titan-Egi so it no longer fulfills a "niche" role (i.e. barely used at all) was the right choice in this rework.
2. Most status ailments (such as stun) don't work on bosses, so this would only fulfill a "niche" role (which I'm highly against).
3. Unless you could "glamour" them (complete with their own visual effects), I completely disagree having summons tied to specific ("niche") tasks.
4. The Fenrir we fought wasn't a Primal, ergo, we can't create an Egi/Trance/etc. out of it (it must be lore compliant).

Come to think of it, most of your ideas boil down to reverting SMN back to how it used to be pre-6.0.
And again, unless you could glamour them all (complete with their own visual effects) regardless of their "role", I completely disagree with your takes.

[aveyond-dreams]

Fenrir was one of FFXI's best summons, all it takes is for another culture somewhere in the world to say "Fenrir is our god as well as the name of that wolf from Coerthas..." and it's lore compliant, though admittedly I would rather not see him until Shiva/Ramuh/Levi. I do absolutely disagree with the concept of locking summons into niche roles again.

Future gem summons do not have to necessarily be copy-pastes of Ifrit/Titan/Garuda's mechanics either, and given how much demand there is for more full sized summons I do not see a future where "resources are not devoted" to making at least 1 new summon per expansion. Failing mechanical uniqueness, I'll accept them as glamours though I'd rather that not be the case.

(Also for goodness sake SE stop making us fight orange on top of orange and other similar light-coloured backgrounds. The time to learn that lesson was at the start of Shb with the arenas from Mt. Gulg, remember?)

[SieyaM]

I can definitely understand wanting to add more oGCD things to weave for SMN, but you do have to be careful how they are added. Anything oGCD that has to be used during your titan phase means that you have to double weave to use it since Mountain buster is an oGCD that you get after every GCD topaz rite you use. Because of latency issues a number of people have with this game double weaving can be incredibly difficult for some or near impossible through no fault of their own. Also yeah, Carbuncle either needs to be worked so it is available all the time to use Aegis and Light or they need to decouple those skills from Carbuncle all together which would then make him completely useless. Maybe adding two abilities that will proc off of gemshine or brilliance skills could be added, although again if something procs off of topaz rite or catastrophe it will end up either being a situation where you have to double weave or you have to choose between using topaz rite or this new procced ability.

[Sequora]

One idea I had was to add some kind of a proc based system, where something would have a % based chance to “upgrade one of your gems”, but you had to use it next. Like ruby would upgrade to a diamond and you could summon shiva, who would maybe have a slight twist on ifrit’s rotation. Topaz would upgrade to Ramuh, and Garuda would upgrade to leviathan because of dropsy puddles

[remiff]

One idea I had was to add some kind of a proc based system, where something would have a % based chance to “upgrade one of your gems”, but you had to use it next. Like ruby would upgrade to a diamond and you could summon shiva, who would maybe have a slight twist on ifrit’s rotation. Topaz would upgrade to Ramuh, and Garuda would upgrade to leviathan because of dropsy puddles

you won't see any new summon until 7.0, 6.1 balances are still minor micro reworks with existing spells, the only things they might do is etherflow and r4 changes and some hotfixes ont the raidbuff/shield .
and anyway proc systems are a bad idea for the summoner, they had done it in the past with r4, and it was not good.