Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[Sequora]

I don’t think we’re that far off from what I want. Personally, if they want to keep us as the hyper mobile caster, get rid of rez, and either increase our personal damage or increase our damage utility in some way.

As others have said, carbuncle is super clunky. Would it be too much on the system to have two summons at once? It would be great if we could use radiant aegis and searing light without some strict limitation. I love our little carbuncle, but if the system can’t handle it, maybe it’s time to get rid of him.

I too would love to see something to manage. We don’t have any DoTs which is fine, but maybe some kind of a proc. Maybe adding another astral flow type skill that is activated on a proc basis.

I also think it’s time to get rid of aetherflow. I feel like they ran out of time and didn’t know what to replace it with, so they left it. It feels really out of place and feels like their answer for “something for us to manage”.

We’re not getting another full rework. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a mini rework done mid expansion, similar to last expansion, but I think this is going to be the base we build upon in 7.0.

[IruruCece]

I don’t think we’re that far off from what I want. Personally, if they want to keep us as the hyper mobile caster, get rid of rez, and either increase our personal damage or increase our damage utility in some way.

As others have said, carbuncle is super clunky. Would it be too much on the system to have two summons at once? It would be great if we could use radiant aegis and searing light without some strict limitation. I love our little carbuncle, but if the system can’t handle it, maybe it’s time to get rid of him.

I too would love to see something to manage. We don’t have any DoTs which is fine, but maybe some kind of a proc. Maybe adding another astral flow type skill that is activated on a proc basis.

I also think it’s time to get rid of aetherflow. I feel like they ran out of time and didn’t know what to replace it with, so they left it. It feels really out of place and feels like their answer for “something for us to manage”.

We’re not getting another full rework. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a mini rework done mid expansion, similar to last expansion, but I think this is going to be the base we build upon in 7.0.

I'm still not sure how "ruin mage" is more Summoner than any previous iteration beyond the visual spectacle of the summons themselves, which frankly could have been integrated in the older version of the job. It's still rather galling to me that the Super Egis show up, 2 out of 3 flash the screen during their big attack, and then they just go away while the Summoner spams NotRuins as a reward for 2 of those 3 summons, then struggles to justify the full cast times on the third, which also includes a MELEE COMBO.

Current SMN is literally Endorphin Flashbang: The Job, and it's so disappointing. I wasn't even a SMN main in the previous expansions, but I never asked for anything quite this mindless on this or ANY job.

[Laphicet]

We’re not getting another full rework. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a mini rework done mid expansion, similar to last expansion, but I think this is going to be the base we build upon in 7.0.

MCH and healers laugh and mock you for your blind optimism. History shows that they won't add anything more besides really minor stuff. And are in fact likely to take stuff away rather than adding more.

[aveyond-dreams]

I'm still not sure how "ruin mage" is more Summoner than any previous iteration beyond the visual spectacle of the summons themselves, which frankly could have been integrated in the older version of the job. It's still rather galling to me that the Super Egis show up, 2 out of 3 flash the screen during their big attack, and then they just go away while the Summoner spams NotRuins as a reward for 2 of those 3 summons, then struggles to justify the full cast times on the third, which also includes a MELEE COMBO.

Current SMN is literally Endorphin Flashbang: The Job, and it's so disappointing. I wasn't even a SMN main in the previous expansions, but I never asked for anything quite this mindless on this or ANY job.

Respectfully, please at least attempt to familiarize yourself with how summon magic works in other Final Fantasy games before making uninformed "this is not a real Summoner!" comments as the #1 response to the rework was wow, finally we are actual FF Summoners. Persistent pets would have been fantastic-and after 8 years of trying and failing to get them right it was clear that this was the better compromise.

Your attitude is one that seems to reduce everything to the point where there's no fun to be had, which the complete opposite of what a job like this one is about. Spectacle aside I'll gladly take a rotation like this one over old SMN's. No class in game should ever have to juggle that amount of busywork for so little payoff. I'm so glad our mindsets are at complete opposites because it "having fun" seems more like a chore in your eyes than mine.

[Laphicet]

Respectfully, please at least attempt to familiarize yourself with how summon magic works in other Final Fantasy games before making uninformed "this is not a real Summoner!" comments as the #1 response to the rework was wow, finally we are actual FF Summoners.

Here we go again with your repetitive arguments and bad faith interjections. Every job in this game is a massive thematic differentiation from its past incarnations (if it even has a past incarnations), and I will copy paste my prior post if I have to. Theme is not an argument, stop trying to argue this point.

[aveyond-dreams]

Here we go again with your repetitive arguments and bad faith interjections. Every job in this game is a massive thematic differentiation from its past incarnations (if it even has a past incarnations), and I will copy paste my prior post if I have to. Theme is not an argument, stop trying to argue this point.

Theme is relevant when in its place we got a job that played awfully and was so off base that it was either not recognized as a Summoner at all, or was given the astounding title of worst Summoner in the entire franchise. Poison mage combined with "complexity!" made for a bad experience, I'm terribly sorry that most players agree on this point and burned through the last of their patience last expansion, necessitating the rework.

You can easily be different and be good, see Sage, or a job can be different and be universally disliked apart from a small subsect of people who have 0 prior experience with FF games.

They’re a troll. Ignore them.

Old SMN fans seem to throw this around whenever confronted with those of us who are completely opposed to the class we *endured* for however long before abandoning them to their own devices. Trust me, when I let go of SMN in Shb I was more than happy to leave the people who allegedly enjoyed the class alone. I made my peace with it and proceeded to ignore the class right up until the job live letter, where they made clear that this was the future of the job and that the past didn't work out, for reasons that were obvious to everyone outside this bubble. Rather than wasting time and energy here, I still to this day have yet to see them organize in such a way as to not turn people off and offer their ideas for future job additions.

[SargeTheSeagull]

They’re a troll. Ignore them.

[MagiusNecros]

6.0 SMN is 1 step forward 3 steps backward. We are finally full fledged Summoners that summon big meaty monsters but as you level to 90 your overall kit gets much more restrictive. Carbuncle actions are forced to become more tactical instead of being always available and your 60 second burst becomes a 2 minute burst once you unlock Phoenix so instead of full dps you are locked into a utility phase.

In raids it would be better if you could choose between Bahamut or Phoenix based on situation although since healers have nothing to heal I guess it doesn't really matter.

With SMN potency buffes from the last 2 patches I think SMN performs fine in dungeons. Lots of big AoE damage especially with Titan/Bahamut/Phoenix.

If I have any problems it's that Aetherflow is a archaic subset of skills that feel bad to use and if they want to keep it Ruin 4 needs to be oGCD and each Summon needs to generate Aetherflow stacks instead of Energy Drain/Siphon.

Most of the time I prefer to not even bother with Ruin 4 given it breaks the flow of things.

Overall I like new SMN but I won't lie to you the class only comes into it's own at 86 and 90 respectively. Which IMO given the leveling experience is a total shitshow.

Level syncing down is gonna feel so bad.

[IruruCece]

Here we go again with your repetitive arguments and bad faith interjections. Every job in this game is a massive thematic differentiation from its past incarnations (if it even has a past incarnations), and I will copy paste my prior post if I have to. Theme is not an argument, stop trying to argue this point.

They haven't once been able to actually explain why different flavors of ruin-spam is inherently more like Summoner in any previous incarnation, possibly because repeatedly staring at Ifrit and Titan popping off on training dummies has likely flashed away memories of other FF titles they keep trying to invoke in their worthless arguments.

[Dahlinea]

Imagine trying to show and discuss the real issues of the rework and having a "SMN connoisseur" bringing the same pointless argument of "SMN in previous iterations of FF blah blah blah..." every time, when it doesn't matter in the slightest how it plays in other FF right now. The real issue being how to make current SMN a more engaging job and not this bland flashy thing.