*Spoilers* Anyone feel joining Emet would have been better

[Jandor]

Right you are! Which is a particularly nice subtle little touch of development on Emet-selch's part, considering what it took to get the grumpy old ancient to see it that way. Still, in that context I don't think the term is incorrect or somehow wrong to use, from an outsider's perspective, especially in matters of fiction. But if you just wanted to point out that little tidbit to me, I do think that makes for an excellent bow on both characters.

Mostly just a tidbit. I suppose though, if you agree with Venat and Emet, it does make the term genocide a little fuzzier.

I suppose it also depends on what you think happened directly after the sundering.

• Did the current races exist in some form pre-sundering?
• Did all the ancients instantly fall over dead wherever they were stood?
• Was the addition of ancient souls to modern mankind something that slowly happened over time?
• Was it a consequence of the life-stream having a whole bunch of shattered ancient souls and no ancients to put them in?
• Did the life-stream essentially just go 'eh, these are close enough' and started reincarnating them as modern man?
• Is 'close enough' even a factor?
• If it's not then could Emet-Selch end up reincarnating as a spriggan?

• Did the current races not exist?
• Are the current races just what happens when you sunder Ancients?
• Did Azem go to sleep the night of the sundering an Ancient, and wake up the next day as a Viera?
• Is the deficit of ancient souls in modern mankind a result of our population growing larger than theirs?
• Do some people not awaken to the echo because they're a relatively fresh soul, created sometime is the past 12'000 years?

[Cleretic]

I've actually found Reddit to be just fine on lore subjects--sometimes better than here, in fact--they just have a different type of Bad Poster. Reddit actually tends to agree with the official forums in most subjects (Venat's about the only time I've seen a significant difference in that, in fact), but tend to express disagreement differently.

The best examples I saw were around Emet-Selch pre-Endwalker (post-Endwalker the Venat situation shifts that one a little and makes it harder to compare). Both sites would shout you down if you hated him for, you know, being an asshole and a terrible person, but Reddit was more likely to go 'edgelord' about saying he was right, while here you'd be more likely to get whacked with a wall of text about why you're wrong.

They also make way shorter posts arguing their point over there. I feel like here people wear the fact they can make a post long enough that they can't post it without editing as an accomplishment, whereas over there you will see much more concise points.

People are generally wrong in different ways, too. With Reddit you're getting a lot of much more shallow readers, so you get a lot of people who don't catch something and then just get confused about more surface-level stuff, while here you're more likely to get a combination of deliberate selective reading and over-speculation falling into fanfiction.

Basically: over there they underthink, over here we overthink.

[Rannie]

If it's not then could Emet-Selch end up reincarnating as a spriggan?

I vote this be the next subject of intense debate... one over it happening and two over the correct naming of the spriggan

Lol sorry that question had me stop and laugh

[Jandor]

Spriggan-selch, of course. Fight me Emet-spriggan gang.

[Rannie]

Hey hey it could very well be Emet-Spriggan-Selch

[Vyrerus]

But Emet-selch is just his title. Shouldn't it be Hadeggan? >:P Or perhaps Spriggades?

[EaraGrace]

The other major topic I've seen is whether or not the themes of EW resonated with you and the various theories as to why or why not. The most common one being that people under the age of 25 wouldn't appreciate it because apparently young people don't experience suffering and despair until then. :P Weird take given the past couple of years, but a popular one.

I saw a similar thread on the general discussion forum.

It was mostly people arguing about the Sundering or saying the writing was “objectively bad.”

[Rannie]

But Emet-selch is just his title. Shouldn't it be Hadeggan? >:P Or perhaps Spriggades?

I would have you know that the honorable Emet-Spriggan-Selch would be called just that due to being a part of the Crystal Cluster 14. So he would not be going by his birth name which is Haspriggandes.

[Jandor]

'Spriggy-selch reveal true face now! Spriggy-selch is Spriggades!'

[Nilroreo]

It's a cycle. Several new(er) posters have found their way to this thread*, possibly because word has been getting around that if you didn't like EW the official forums are one of the few places you can discuss it. Reddit is still aggressively downvoting anyone who doesn't lavish it with praise. At any rate, they post, the usual defenders show up, then the usual detractors have to show up to counterbalance, and then we end up back at square one.

I only joined in on the convo about a week ago for this exact reason. I just wanted to vent a bit about how strangely hypocritical EW message was in regard to moving forward passed hard times among other things. I already discussed it in length but G'raha really is basically guilty of nearly committing an act the ascians are vilified for just one expansion later. I like G'raha but no amount of sugarcoating his situation will ever change the fact that his erasure was his intended outcome, and I'm not afraid to call this out.

On the topic of Venat vs Emet, Ill preface this by saying I had no reservations about killing Emet. I really like the guy, probably the only brutally honest character in the whole game, but it was survival, and I was fine with his death. Hell, I actually wished he stayed dead instead of having his corpse dragged back out of his grave for fanservice. As for Venat... Surprise, I actually liked her character, loved her even! I enjoyed every second with her on Elpis, right up to the end of KH when I noticed she came out with us. At that moment, I could feel the cogs rotating in my head and I remember telling myself that this singular decision is going to have ramifications rippling across the entire game and call everything Hydaelyn has ever said and done into question, and I was right.

Anyways, I also wanted to address this idea that people who hate this story would supposedly have lurkers convinced this game is horrible or something, as if the developers and this game need you to protect them from criticism which is just silly. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but no amount of shutting down others, telling them "You just dont get it," or lumping people into either Venat or Emet's side just because they disagreed with you or the games writing direction is ever going to sit well with anyone.

Where is that discussion going on, cause holy cow. @_@; Yikes!

It's kinda funny cuz I've been bingeing this game from beginning to end since early September shortly before my father passed away (ok this part isn't funny), so you'd think this expansions uplifting message would be right up my alley, but not quite. I'm fairly good at detaching my personal life from the media I consume, so most of its more sentimental bits, particularly in the final area didn't quite land for me on account of the expansions lack of stakes.