*Spoilers* Anyone feel joining Emet would have been better

[Rulakir]

Looking at it as Lore as erudition, have we really broken any new ground within the last 40 pages? What constructive things have we learned?

Will we really be served to make our same points using different words again and again?

It's a cycle. Several new(er) posters have found their way to this thread*, possibly because word has been getting around that if you didn't like EW the official forums are one of the few places you can discuss it. Reddit is still aggressively downvoting anyone who doesn't lavish it with praise. At any rate, they post, the usual defenders show up, then the usual detractors have to show up to counterbalance, and then we end up back at square one.

* It's a shame out of all of them this is the thread that persisted. Both "On Venat's Role in the Story" and "[Spoilers] Venat's motive" were much better.

Some of it is probably also a remaining need to rant about it. Personally, I was so disappointed with EW I considered for weeks whether or not I wanted to quit. It's not like venting about it once was enough to work through everything I was thinking and feeling. I think we can all relate to disliking something so much it feels good to ruminate with others who felt similarly. Due to how social media works, you can't post "I hate this" and only attract like-minded people, you will attract people who disagree and then proceed to detail every which way you are wrong and the cycle continues.

[SpectrePhantasia]

While the topic could certainly stand to remain in it's own boundaries without leaking into more tangentially related threads, I personally (for the most part) am not feeling any of the animosity or irritation that other people are citing in discussing the morality of these things, and their own interpretations of the characters actions. I actually quite enjoy the deliberation a lot, and a lot of posts, even those that are contrary to my own views have given me new ways to consider how plot and lore elements were structured, and the meaning behind them.

All of which is to say that I'm sorry for those who find the topic to be growing tiresome, but speaking for myself, I only bother to critique things this deeply when I truly care about the source material and the world therein. I've been having a lot of fun, but I understand others thinking it has run its course. That being said, the Sundering is still probably the single most important Lore event in the game right now, so I don't think it should come as a surprise that debate and threads about it have a lot more longevity than other things.

[Vyrerus]

It's a cycle.

I guess it continued in this thread, because this is where more inflammatory takes showed up, so it stayed easily accessible and active on the front page of the sub forum.

There is still a lot to discuss on the Sundering/Ancients topic, but I couldn't help but notice in tonight's backread that folks still occasionally reference the OP when we're lightyears away from it.

It just feels like to me that what's been going on in this thread has trailed away from being conducive to lore.

I don't think we're broadening perspectives at this point. We're just turning syllables around, and restating the same things.

I get the need to vent. I do so myself. It's just you know. The thread is almost 90 pages long now, and it'd already started getting repetitive like 30~40 or so pages ago.

I mean, we will probably just go in circles again in whatever thread becomes hot next, as that is the nature of this forum (I've read up posts from years ago, and seen cyclical arguments between protagonist enthusiasts and antagonist enthusiasts, and the only discernible differences were plot related. And it seemed like people were more open/forthcoming in the past, but I guess they weren't as tired then).

I mean, feel free to ignore me. I guess what I'm really suggesting is something of a recess or a break on the topic? I guess it might not really do anything, but generally the first step to not thinking about the same thing continuously is to think about something else.

[Nilroreo]

It's a cycle. Several new(er) posters have found their way to this thread*, possibly because word has been getting around that if you didn't like EW the official forums are one of the few places you can discuss it. Reddit is still aggressively downvoting anyone who doesn't lavish it with praise. At any rate, they post, the usual defenders show up, then the usual detractors have to show up to counterbalance, and then we end up back at square one.

I only joined in on the convo about a week ago for this exact reason. I just wanted to vent a bit about how strangely hypocritical EW message was in regard to moving forward passed hard times among other things. I already discussed it in length but G'raha really is basically guilty of nearly committing an act the ascians are vilified for just one expansion later. I like G'raha but no amount of sugarcoating his situation will ever change the fact that his erasure was his intended outcome, and I'm not afraid to call this out.

On the topic of Venat vs Emet, Ill preface this by saying I had no reservations about killing Emet. I really like the guy, probably the only brutally honest character in the whole game, but it was survival, and I was fine with his death. Hell, I actually wished he stayed dead instead of having his corpse dragged back out of his grave for fanservice. As for Venat... Surprise, I actually liked her character, loved her even! I enjoyed every second with her on Elpis, right up to the end of KH when I noticed she came out with us. At that moment, I could feel the cogs rotating in my head and I remember telling myself that this singular decision is going to have ramifications rippling across the entire game and call everything Hydaelyn has ever said and done into question, and I was right.

Anyways, I also wanted to address this idea that people who hate this story would supposedly have lurkers convinced this game is horrible or something, as if the developers and this game need you to protect them from criticism which is just silly. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but no amount of shutting down others, telling them "You just dont get it," or lumping people into either Venat or Emet's side just because they disagreed with you or the games writing direction is ever going to sit well with anyone.

Where is that discussion going on, cause holy cow. @_@; Yikes!

It's kinda funny cuz I've been bingeing this game from beginning to end since early September shortly before my father passed away (ok this part isn't funny), so you'd think this expansions uplifting message would be right up my alley, but not quite. I'm fairly good at detaching my personal life from the media I consume, so most of its more sentimental bits, particularly in the final area didn't quite land for me on account of the expansions lack of stakes.

[Nilroreo]

Actually, Yoshi-P said in a recent interview that wasn't the case. He was always planned to show up again in Endwalker.

I know, but I'm pretty sure he did mention It was in part due to the positive reception of his character in ShB. I didn't completely mind his appearance in Elpis, I more so meant his appearance in Ultima Thule.

[Nilroreo]

He didn't. He said that was the plan even before the positive reception and that he specifically prevented merch of the character from being made during ShB because his role wasn't finished.

Hmm, Oh well. Ill take your word for it. Too lazy to check myself. Either way his appearance towards the end i felt was a tad corny among other things in that area, but that's just me.

[Denishia]

Hmm, Oh well. Ill take your word for it. Too lazy to check myself. Either way his appearance towards the end i felt was a tad corny among other things in that area, but that's just me.

I'm just happy that someone else who actually liked his character also thought the Ultima Thule appearance was overkill. It took away the narrative focus that should have been on Meteion and the WoL and made it about Emet (and Hyth) that felt like gratuitous fanservice for those that liked that character. The only time I felt tempted to skip a new cutscene in the MSQ. For me, Emet is the prime example of how a well-written character can be one I loathe and find utterly unenjoyable to have in a narrative. His voice actor is skilled and fits the character- and exudes a negative charisma that made his choice of narrator for Endwalker my biggest problem with the Expansion.

[Lurina]

He didn't. He said that was the plan even before the positive reception (and that nothing changed because of it) and that he specifically prevented merch of the character from being made during ShB because his role wasn't finished.

This is not correct. He explicitly said that they "added lots of fanservice" regarding Emet because of his reception.