What happened to 8-man raids? Binding Coils was so elaborate compared to now..

[SieyaM]

Dungeon and raid design, even the 24 man raids, have all become less about telling a narrative or trying to be engaging through gameplay and are only about being efficient farming avenues for those that want the rewards.

[Packetdancer]

Ngl, I've been calling them trials for a long time.
I hope they never take away the inbetweens in 24 man.
Those, imo, are actual raids and way more fun than this port here and chill in a single arena.

See, I actually really love alliance raids. (Well, except Crystal Tower. I'm really, really tired of Crystal Tower.) I think what I don't miss about the progression-type raids being the same thing as alliance-type raids is the whole "spread the entire instance across the course of a week, and have to coordinate the state of your run through it with the state of everyone else you're running with" portion of it.

When Delubrum Reginae savage was brand new -- and not yet outgeared by Zadnor's "Rays" mechanic -- and so still generally required a completely full roster to get through, it was incredibly frustrating sometimes getting all 48 people in the Delubrum static I was part of together consistently, and if we wiped late in the instance and had to start over, sometimes that meant "Welp, we don't have enough time to make meaningful progress on another run." I still really enjoyed the experience (and definitely hope we get more like that!), but I think I enjoyed it as a once-a-week thing for a limited time.

If the progression raiding tier -- i.e., the weekly-limit-on-loot progression grind -- had been the same sort of content, I think I would've had to just go "nope" on savage raiding in this game for the sake of my sanity in terms of time budgeting.

[Raikai]

Then don't make them irrelevant, I actually like the progression system of WoW - how it saves your progress of a raid. You wouldn't have to reclear mobs just when you requeue then...

Read the second part of my post, lol...

[Commander_Justitia]

Read the second part of my post, lol...

Thought more of relevance in a gameplay/mechanical way, than reward/time effeciency to only please the anti-trash players. I dont think clearing trash and giving an item for that is the way for ff. I think more like of a t2 mechanic, where you buff a boss and get a better loot as a direct result of that, because you play the more difficult way - or you get a set of achievements tied to trash that you cant do all in one week anyway, and you have to mix it up to meet a certain condition, and if you manage to clear those raidtier achievements all you get a reward.

[Kolsykol]

The ARR ones dealt with the 1.0 story follow-up.
They were more directly tied to the overall story.

[Azuri]

The ARR ones dealt with the 1.0 story follow-up.
They were more directly tied to the overall story.

You mean like Eden which ties directly into ShB story?

[Kolsykol]

You mean like Eden which ties directly into ShB story?

I mean kinda, but not on the same level.
Do you really think it's as important or adds as much?

Altho I'd probably say it's more comparable to Alexander than Coils.