What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[EgilTheStressedMage]

they should have had Zenos in our body attack the other scions we show up in the "other" body and have to fight ourself with the scions after a bit Zenos is like i'm board and leaves

As much as I love this expansion, that for me was easily the worst part. You don't get my blood boiling then say "lol bye" like I got permadommed by some Scout in TF2 who named his weapons after My Little Pony then left.

[KizuyaKatogami]

As much as I love this expansion, that for me was easily the worst part. You don't get my blood boiling then say "lol bye" like I got permadommed by some Scout in TF2 who named his weapons after My Little Pony then left.

It doesn’t help with all of the teasing they were doing with Zenos’ lines consisting of “You will come to me full of rage…” It definitely seems like there were a lot of last minute changes done for the story. I wouldn’t be surprised if originally he was meant to kill someone whilst in our body and that would send the WoL over the edge. But can’t have too much grit i guess during an end of days apocalypse

[Kozh]

It doesn’t help with all of the teasing they were doing with Zenos’ lines consisting of “You will come to me full of rage…” It definitely seems like there were a lot of last minute changes done for the story. I wouldn’t be surprised if originally he was meant to kill someone whilst in our body and that would send the WoL over the edge. But can’t have too much grit i guess during an end of days apocalypse

Lol this also reminds me of vythra's dialogue. "your friends will be dragged into your fate". They keep bringing it up like it's some kind of foreshadowing, and turns out it amount to nothing.

[TaleraRistain]

This will probably get some people annoyed at me--I love G'raha to death, one of my fave characters in the game, but my perspective on him is not the same as a lot of other people's--but I think this makes perfect sense with what hints we get in canon: G'raha doesn't like being the Crystal Exarch.

I actually appreciate the depiction of someone that dislikes almost everything about the role in which he finds himself. Instead of tired lessons about "learning to appreciate the things you have, home is where you have to live for the sake of other people," the reward is to set aside the unrewarding and have the freedom to finally do what you really desire. I agree that there were some characterization bumps along the way, but overall I'm happy with where G'raha ended up in the narrative.

Exactly. He was sent to the First to stop the Rejoining and did what was necessary for that but it's not what he wanted. He didn't want to put himself to sleep in the Crystal Tower in the first place either but he saw he had to. And he didn't just instantly go shy when he returned to the Source. He showed that side in ShB when we were alone with him. He fidgeted outside our door bringing us sandwiches. His shy admiration of us came through loud and clear when we sat together in Kholusia. He could just let that out more openly when he didn't have the weight of two worlds weighing on his shoulders. And he does call upon that side of himself when it's needed, as we saw in Thavnair.

[Rise-chu]

Can confirm that Endwalker was pretty bad. It had its good moments for sure but they didn't last and for some reason the dev team really chickened out on doing anything that wasn't cute or fanservicey.

We're far away from Heavensward or Stormblood where actions had consequences. I am not one of those people that wanted deaths in the cast -- I'm fine with everyone surviving. But I don't like that the main cast was essentially Mary Sues that simpered their way through out the entire expansion without a scratch on them. This has been a consistent problem for years now where the dev team is absolutely terrified of doing something permanent to the main cast. And the thing is, I don't think the Scions are actually beloved enough to warrant that kind of fearfulness so I don't understand where it's coming from.

Really atrocious story quality and Ishikawa and Oda are supposed to be good at this. I'm really disappointed if this is the quality of story we can expect from them going forward, where the threats are pointlessly neutered before they even begin and we're supposed to be focusing on sitting around in Sharlayan having a tea party while the apocalypse is supposedly happening.

[ReynTime]

Can confirm that Endwalker was pretty bad. It had its good moments for sure but they didn't last and for some reason the dev team really chickened out on doing anything that wasn't cute or fanservicey.

We're far away from Heavensward or Stormblood where actions had consequences. I am not one of those people that wanted deaths in the cast -- I'm fine with everyone surviving. But I don't like that the main cast was essentially Mary Sues that simpered their way through out the entire expansion without a scratch on them. This has been a consistent problem for years now where the dev team is absolutely terrified of doing something permanent to the main cast. And the thing is, I don't think the Scions are actually beloved enough to warrant that kind of fearfulness so I don't understand where it's coming from.

Really atrocious story quality and Ishikawa and Oda are supposed to be good at this. I'm really disappointed if this is the quality of story we can expect from them going forward, where the threats are pointlessly neutered before they even begin and we're supposed to be focusing on sitting around in Sharlayan having a tea party while the apocalypse is supposedly happening.

Well, they lost the best writer in XIV for XVI to let someone who is apparently obsessed with trying to make people cry and power of friendship speeches... Yeah the old writer is still around but his involvement in ShB and EW is very minimal.

[ApolloGenX]

Exactly. He was sent to the First to stop the Rejoining and did what was necessary for that but it's not what he wanted. He didn't want to put himself to sleep in the Crystal Tower in the first place either but he saw he had to. And he didn't just instantly go shy when he returned to the Source. He showed that side in ShB when we were alone with him. He fidgeted outside our door bringing us sandwiches. His shy admiration of us came through loud and clear when we sat together in Kholusia. He could just let that out more openly when he didn't have the weight of two worlds weighing on his shoulders. And he does call upon that side of himself when it's needed, as we saw in Thavnair.

I like him, but his overly timid anime style admiration is tired bordering on creepy. They get it right with Estinien, imo.

[Nilroreo]

Really atrocious story quality and Ishikawa and Oda are supposed to be good at this. I'm really disappointed if this is the quality of story we can expect from them going forward, where the threats are pointlessly neutered before they even begin and we're supposed to be focusing on sitting around in Sharlayan having a tea party while the apocalypse is supposedly happening.

This point is actually kinda interesting cuz it ties into one specific issue I have in regard to stakes in Endwalker. I've seen others defend the Ultima Thule segment claiming that death was never the point to begin with and that the scions have already reached their "final forms," having long conquered the source of their own despair. This same argument is also used to defend the deceptively tame nature of the Final days that we experienced. But this defense is precisely why I find the conflict this time around to be fairly weak. When working with a setting that has been long stripped of the root of its despair, why hand the main antagonist of your final arc a weapon specifically designed to target, and exploit said despair? If nearly everyone in your story is bulletproof, why give the bad guy a gun?

[Barwara]

Imo, 5.3 should've been where his character made his final exit from the story. At the end of the Crystal tower Raid, Everyone decides to strive towards a future where the crystal tower can serve as a symbol of hope and prosperity for future generations. Fast forward to Shadowbringers and G'raha does just that, becoming a sort of father figure for the remnants of a dying world in need of guidance with the crystal tower itself becoming a bastion of safety. He fuses with the Crystal tower to prolong his life and see his mission to completion, and throughout the patches, bloodlets himself which somehow perverts his body further. By the end, he successfully creates auracites that can safely get us back home and then proceeds to fully become one with the crystal tower after all is said and done. G'raha literally fusing with the symbol of hope after having successfully saved the First from complete annihilation was a beautiful end to his character... or atleast it wouldve been had they not dragged him back to the first, had him hijack his own sleeping body (they say both personalities "blended," but cmon, how is this not weird?) reducing him to a submissive shy sidekick.

I agreeeee. The game is very gracious towards the characters, which is kind of a shame because I feel like if more characters had died throughout our journey, remembering them as we approach the final battle would have felt so much more meaningful. But it seems the story relies a lot on the power of your (still alive) friendships... owo;

[KizuyaKatogami]

This point is actually kinda interesting cuz it ties into one specific issue I have in regard to stakes in Endwalker. I've seen others defend the Ultima Thule segment claiming that death was never the point to begin with and that the scions have already reached their "final forms," having long conquered the source of their own despair. This same argument is also used to defend the deceptively tame nature of the Final days that we experienced. But this defense is precisely why I find the conflict this time around to be fairly weak. When working with a setting that has been long stripped of the root of its despair, why hand the main antagonist of your final arc a weapon specifically designed to target, and exploit said despair? If nearly everyone in your story is bulletproof, why give the bad guy a gun?

The answer to this is pretty simple. They just don’t want to kill any of the main cast as we all know. Instead they kill off minor npcs so that people can defend it and say “see, it wasn’t without consequences! X character died!” We saw this in Shb with Tesleen who in reality we knew for 5-10 mins. It’s pseudo consequences basically. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a lot of the stuff that might’ve actually threatened the scions has been completely dropped. Again, i bring up Yshtola’s supposedly draining life. What happened to that? Literally not mentioned after HW.