What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Rise-chu]

Can confirm that Endwalker was pretty bad. It had its good moments for sure but they didn't last and for some reason the dev team really chickened out on doing anything that wasn't cute or fanservicey.

We're far away from Heavensward or Stormblood where actions had consequences. I am not one of those people that wanted deaths in the cast -- I'm fine with everyone surviving. But I don't like that the main cast was essentially Mary Sues that simpered their way through out the entire expansion without a scratch on them. This has been a consistent problem for years now where the dev team is absolutely terrified of doing something permanent to the main cast. And the thing is, I don't think the Scions are actually beloved enough to warrant that kind of fearfulness so I don't understand where it's coming from.

Really atrocious story quality and Ishikawa and Oda are supposed to be good at this. I'm really disappointed if this is the quality of story we can expect from them going forward, where the threats are pointlessly neutered before they even begin and we're supposed to be focusing on sitting around in Sharlayan having a tea party while the apocalypse is supposedly happening.

[ReynTime]

Can confirm that Endwalker was pretty bad. It had its good moments for sure but they didn't last and for some reason the dev team really chickened out on doing anything that wasn't cute or fanservicey.

We're far away from Heavensward or Stormblood where actions had consequences. I am not one of those people that wanted deaths in the cast -- I'm fine with everyone surviving. But I don't like that the main cast was essentially Mary Sues that simpered their way through out the entire expansion without a scratch on them. This has been a consistent problem for years now where the dev team is absolutely terrified of doing something permanent to the main cast. And the thing is, I don't think the Scions are actually beloved enough to warrant that kind of fearfulness so I don't understand where it's coming from.

Really atrocious story quality and Ishikawa and Oda are supposed to be good at this. I'm really disappointed if this is the quality of story we can expect from them going forward, where the threats are pointlessly neutered before they even begin and we're supposed to be focusing on sitting around in Sharlayan having a tea party while the apocalypse is supposedly happening.

Well, they lost the best writer in XIV for XVI to let someone who is apparently obsessed with trying to make people cry and power of friendship speeches... Yeah the old writer is still around but his involvement in ShB and EW is very minimal.

[Rise-chu]

Well, they lost the best writer in XIV for XVI to let someone who is apparently obsessed with trying to make people cry and power of friendship speeches... Yeah the old writer is still around but his involvement in ShB and EW is very minimal.

Ishikawa has been incredibly disappointing which is a real shame considering how much the fandom desperately tries to hype her up. And yet the best thing she can do is deliver simpering tea parties and only put the apocalypse in two zones and can't even figure out how to threaten the Scions in a convincing way? Is this really what the entire fandom has been screaming and crying about for years as the most amazing Final Fantasy writer in existence? Someone who wants to make us have tea parties?

I'm sorry but she's such a disappointment. Endwalker really could have been something but instead we got a wet blanket of an expansion. Imagine what could have been if this were in the hands of the Heavensward guy.

In unrelated news, I am greatly looking forward to FF16! Can't explain why.

This point is actually kinda interesting cuz it ties into one specific issue I have in regard to stakes in Endwalker. I've seen others defend the Ultima Thule segment claiming that death was never the point to begin with and that the scions have already reached their "final forms," having long conquered the source of their own despair. This same argument is also used to defend the deceptively tame nature of the Final days that we experienced. But this defense is precisely why I find the conflict this time around to be fairly weak. When working with a setting that has been long stripped of the root of its despair, why hand the main antagonist of your final arc a weapon specifically designed to target, and exploit said despair? If nearly everyone in your story is bulletproof, why give the bad guy a gun?

Because they chickened out. I mean, I dragged one specific person already in this post but let's face it, Endwalker was a group effort. It takes a lot of people to make a story like that where it has some really good parts! ...but then utterly collapses in on itself. It's not even that bad but it's also not good either, it's in a frustrating mediocre valley.

I paid money for this, guys. I paid money for this. Otherwise I might not be so put out.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I paid money for this, guys. I paid money for this. Otherwise I might not be so put out.

I’m upset i bought a 60 day sub for it lmao.

[Nilroreo]

Really atrocious story quality and Ishikawa and Oda are supposed to be good at this. I'm really disappointed if this is the quality of story we can expect from them going forward, where the threats are pointlessly neutered before they even begin and we're supposed to be focusing on sitting around in Sharlayan having a tea party while the apocalypse is supposedly happening.

This point is actually kinda interesting cuz it ties into one specific issue I have in regard to stakes in Endwalker. I've seen others defend the Ultima Thule segment claiming that death was never the point to begin with and that the scions have already reached their "final forms," having long conquered the source of their own despair. This same argument is also used to defend the deceptively tame nature of the Final days that we experienced. But this defense is precisely why I find the conflict this time around to be fairly weak. When working with a setting that has been long stripped of the root of its despair, why hand the main antagonist of your final arc a weapon specifically designed to target, and exploit said despair? If nearly everyone in your story is bulletproof, why give the bad guy a gun?

[KizuyaKatogami]

This point is actually kinda interesting cuz it ties into one specific issue I have in regard to stakes in Endwalker. I've seen others defend the Ultima Thule segment claiming that death was never the point to begin with and that the scions have already reached their "final forms," having long conquered the source of their own despair. This same argument is also used to defend the deceptively tame nature of the Final days that we experienced. But this defense is precisely why I find the conflict this time around to be fairly weak. When working with a setting that has been long stripped of the root of its despair, why hand the main antagonist of your final arc a weapon specifically designed to target, and exploit said despair? If nearly everyone in your story is bulletproof, why give the bad guy a gun?

The answer to this is pretty simple. They just don’t want to kill any of the main cast as we all know. Instead they kill off minor npcs so that people can defend it and say “see, it wasn’t without consequences! X character died!” We saw this in Shb with Tesleen who in reality we knew for 5-10 mins. It’s pseudo consequences basically. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a lot of the stuff that might’ve actually threatened the scions has been completely dropped. Again, i bring up Yshtola’s supposedly draining life. What happened to that? Literally not mentioned after HW.

[Atelier-Bagur]

The answer to this is pretty simple. They just don’t want to kill any of the main cast as we all know. Instead they kill off minor npcs so that people can defend it and say “see, it wasn’t without consequences! X character died!” We saw this in Shb with Tesleen who in reality we knew for 5-10 mins. It’s pseudo consequences basically. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a lot of the stuff that might’ve actually threatened the scions has been completely dropped. Again, i bring up Yshtola’s supposedly draining life. What happened to that? Literally not mentioned after HW.

Im gonna just clip that last sentence because I have a feeling somewhere in the future the writers have been thinking about this part about new Y'shtola for years.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Im gonna just clip that last sentence because I have a feeling somewhere in the future the writers have been thinking about this part about new Y'shtola for years.

More power to you. Personally i’ve been heading for the past two expansions, “Oh i’m sure it will be mentioned next expansion!” And it never has been. At this point it would feel pretty random for them to mention it, because in all honesty she should be dead from it by now. She got sliced in SB and then used flow again in ShB. That should’ve deteriorated her life even more. Instead the opposite has happened and she’s grown stronger. It seems like the rules and laws of the universe don’t apply to them.

[ReynTime]

The answer to this is pretty simple. They just don’t want to kill any of the main cast as we all know. Instead they kill off minor npcs so that people can defend it and say “see, it wasn’t without consequences! X character died!” We saw this in Shb with Tesleen who in reality we knew for 5-10 mins. It’s pseudo consequences basically. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a lot of the stuff that might’ve actually threatened the scions has been completely dropped. Again, i bring up Yshtola’s supposedly draining life. What happened to that? Literally not mentioned after HW.

It's a cheap way to make things more dire than they are in the plot. Introducing a character exclusively to kill them off 10~20 mins later.