6.0 Summoner: Thoughts on an Unsuccessful Rework After 1 Month of Gameplay

[BaconBits]

SMN has a solid foundation. Looking forward to how they'll improve it. Love how it plays.

Solid foundation at level 90, y'all crack me up.

[Aiscence]

The sad thing is how easy it is to make them something we'd care about. Automaton Queen already has half the equation, flexible timing. Both, though, need interaction.

Sadly drill 3 making it a 100 battery per 60sec removed most of its flexibility versus the old 80 on top of the 2 finishers

But yeah, SMN is very lacking, I did the tier as smn and ... still managed to ghost the pet if I needed to delay the buff it's even more ping affected in demis. On top of that, the job is very bad with delaying, delaying baha is always a big no or you're stuck ruining with no other options, and if you don't delay baha but just searing: gl with searing light later in the few seconds your carby is up. Cant imagine how sps smn is played.

[Shiroe]

I like the rework.., it can make me a bit sleepy on easy content (but not near as bad as tanks or physical ranged on easy content), but on harder content, it feels fun, with a bit of strategizing and (primal order, to be ready for burst or movement, rota order of 2 primals, fot similar reasons, feels rewarding,.. when pulling off on fights the "can always move if needed, 100% uptime"..., which is NOT a given in harder content)

... BUT just give us ONE dot back, let it line up with a rota timing or something (make it a short but strong dot or something)..., and the dot could be the dps increase Smn need
... that said, more than a dot, Smn needs a buff

[Arkdra]

So I dogged on smn in a thread or 2 for being a 2 button job, but having just levelled it to 90, I ended up liking it the most of the casters. That said, my opinion probably shouldn't be trusted!

1. I hate casters. I hate the aesthetic and I hate casting spells with any regularity. Having to stand still sucks.

2. I am easily impressed by flash and smn had the most.

So it was satisfying to push their almost nonexistant buttons and I got to ignore castbars for the most part outside of 2 ifrit casts and 1 garuda cast so by virtue of having to cast the fewest spells, it won me over, especially once I got ifrit's melee combo. Do I think they should leave it as is? Probably not, but they kinda designed themselves into a hole where everything revolves around the summons and if they add a button to one summon they probably have to add it to all of them, which is 3-5x the work crafting animations. Also, while I liked it the most of the casters, that doesn't really bring it up all that high on my personal job rankings list.

[Bacillus]

Comparing actual SMN to the last expansion, i like this.

But there are some things that i dont find adecuate or just limit my gameplay:

• Carbuncle: There are 2 skills which depends on this summon and sometimes i find myself in the need to to cast radiant aegis or searing light and carbuncle is not there, so i question, why do i need carbuncle to cast these spells? i find better to remove it and use it as a glamour in the elemental summons or as an arcanist when leveling.
  
• Soul Drain/Syphon, Fester/Painflare: I find these boring, 60 sec cd, no cd in fester/painflare, no synergy with any spell, this needs something, like a combo bonus with another spell or provide a combo bonus to other spell.

Finally, i think that Dots must be back, Miasma as a single target and Bio as Aoe (this is just my proposal), these were very integrated in the Summoner theme.

[IruruCece]

Solid foundation at level 90, y'all crack me up.

This is the same garbage people are saying about Monk now. A "solid foundation" after *four* expansions? One that players don't get to really fully experience until mid way through what, the second expansion, unless they choose to buy a skip to get to what is ostensibly the "good part" of the job?

There's a thread on this forum right now asking what, exactly, constitutes giving a "fair shot" to a job before moving on. If summoner comes together at, say, the mid-80s if we're being generous, there is probably something fundamentally wrong with the design of the job from the ground up, even after the current rework.

[Rika007]

This is the same garbage people are saying about Monk now. A "solid foundation" after *four* expansions? One that players don't get to really fully experience until mid way through what, the second expansion, unless they choose to buy a skip to get to what is ostensibly the "good part" of the job?

There's a thread on this forum right now asking what, exactly, constitutes giving a "fair shot" to a job before moving on. If summoner comes together at, say, the mid-80s if we're being generous, there is probably something fundamentally wrong with the design of the job from the ground up, even after the current rework.

That sounds like far less of an issue with Summoner and far more of an issue with the games design entirely. Not to be that person, but which job actually feels fun to play at it's lower levels, especially the area you listed at Heavensward? Thinking of my most played job at every role:

-Gunbreaker? Feels absolutely awful with no continuation, heart of stone, blood fest (heck you dont get that one till 76, and thats basically the ability that makes Gunbreakers opener possible).

-Bard? No Trobadour, no minne, no refulgent, no apex/blasting, no radiant finale, enhanced empyreal arrow trait, or Shadow Bite

-Astro? No Earthly Star, no Neautral Sect, no horoscope, no minor arcana, no macro cosmos.

-Samurai? Maybe one of the absolute worst experiences at being leveled down in the game. No, hagakure, ikishoten, every single one of the Hissatsu abilities, extra charge on Meikyo Shisui, Tsubame Geshi, Shoha, and Ogi Namikiri all gone.

Compare all that with summoner. No Bahamut, Pheonix, and the favors. Big adds yes. Sucks to not have them. But no different then what you are dealing with on other jobs. And those are just the ones I play the most. Every job feels like crap at lower levels. Thats one of the issues that the game faces the higher in levels we get with how it level syncs and gates the kit. It's not like Heavensward when 20-30 some odd abilities were being stretched across only 60 levels and 2 games worth of content. Now it's 20-30 abilities being stretched across 90 levels and 5 games worth of content. That is not an issue with Summoner, thats an issue with the games progression, and one that isn't easily answered.

[rewd]

That sounds like far less of an issue with Summoner and far more of an issue with the games design entirely. Not to be that person, but which job actually feels fun to play at it's lower levels, especially the area you listed at Heavensward? Thinking of my most played job at every role:

-Gunbreaker? Feels absolutely awful with no continuation, heart of stone, blood fest (heck you dont get that one till 76, and thats basically the ability that makes Gunbreakers opener possible).

-Bard? No Trobadour, no minne, no refulgent, no apex/blasting, no radiant finale, enhanced empyreal arrow trait, or Shadow Bite

-Astro? No Earthly Star, no Neautral Sect, no horoscope, no minor arcana, no macro cosmos.

-Samurai? Maybe one of the absolute worst experiences at being leveled down in the game. No, hagakure, ikishoten, every single one of the Hissatsu abilities, extra charge on Meikyo Shisui, Tsubame Geshi, Shoha, and Ogi Namikiri all gone.

Compare all that with summoner. No Bahamut, Pheonix, and the favors. Big adds yes. Sucks to not have them. But no different then what you are dealing with on other jobs. And those are just the ones I play the most. Every job feels like crap at lower levels. Thats one of the issues that the game faces the higher in levels we get with how it level syncs and gates the kit. It's not like Heavensward when 20-30 some odd abilities were being stretched across only 60 levels and 2 games worth of content. Now it's 20-30 abilities being stretched across 90 levels and 5 games worth of content. That is not an issue with Summoner, thats an issue with the games progression, and one that isn't easily answered.

They never mentioned Heavensward and you know you are really grasping at straws when you mention Troubadour (essentially a role action), Minne (niche skill at best), Refulgent Arrow (animation and potency update) or Apex Arrow (tacked on capstone abilities everyone rightfully complained about) as things that make Bard "fun".

[Rika007]

They never mentioned Heavensward and you know you are really grasping at straws when you mention Troubadour (essentially a role action), Minne (niche skill at best), Refulgent Arrow (animation and potency update) or Apex Arrow (tacked on capstone abilities everyone rightfully complained about) as things that make Bard "fun".

Those abilities are some of my favorite ones added and were some of the best parts of Stormblood Bard. So you do you, don't tell me what is or isn't fun. Your the one grasping at straws when you can only pull 4 abilities out of the over 20 I used to make my point. By 2nd expansion I thought they meant Heavensward as plenty people have referred to ARR as the first expansion after 1.0. Even if they do mean Stormblood though, nothing changes about my point. Most jobs STILL feel like crap at 70. Every single job loses critical parts of it's kit when they get synced down 4 years of content.

[Flatopia]

They never mentioned Heavensward and you know you are really grasping at straws when you mention Troubadour (essentially a role action), Minne (niche skill at best), Refulgent Arrow (animation and potency update) or Apex Arrow (tacked on capstone abilities everyone rightfully complained about) as things that make Bard "fun".

Dude, not having what is effectively a role action until past heavensward feels pretty atrocious.

But also, bard only getting what are minor additions/updates and QoL is effectively what Summoner gets as well. Their core of the kit is obtained pretty early relative to other jobs.
Also, again let's be real, Bard is one of the best jobs in terms of scaling down in level. I do agree it's a weird comparison, but even still as one of the best jobs to level down with, it's no where NEAR an enjoyable experience level synching down.

It is a fault of the game that people have pointed out for a while now, that level synch removing abilities is brutal and harmful to the overall leveling experience. Low level jobs just aren't allowed to be complete.