6.0 Summoner: Thoughts on an Unsuccessful Rework After 1 Month of Gameplay

[dinnertime]

since Fountain of Fire buffs Phoenix isn't a damage loss anymore at 6 casts. Everything else is completely accurate though.

Oh yeah, I forgot they buffed Phoenix. They should've buffed the rest of the job though with how weak it is right now.

[Madoka]

Meh, I'll just switch to a different Job. Again.

You see, in FF14 you aren't beholden to just one.

Yeah, but if you don't like any of the other jobs and they remove the job you do like then hey, there's no jobs you like anymore. I played SMN because it was the most engaging job in the game to me since ARR and continued to be so through ShB. Now it's just as boring as the rest.
Keep in mind I liked 1.0 archer because of Quick knock and stacking damage boosting cross class abilities to obliterate things in one attack with 3 arrows readied because it was an interesting way to play, vs the normal method.

[Aeva]

The problem with forums, is that they don't realise they are a vocal minority. The VAST majority are loving life in the game with the new summoner

No we are not.

[Dyvid]

SMN has a solid foundation. Looking forward to how they'll improve it. Love how it plays.

Yea... but it's also a level 90 job, not 50. We are long long past setting foundations. The jobs they have revamped (DRK, SMN, MCH) have many players feeling that it is incomplete; missing what it had and not having what it needs. Then what if 7.0 ends the leveling experience @ 99?

[ThorneDynasty]

Yea... but it's also a level 90 job, not 50. We are long long past setting foundations. The jobs they have revamped (DRK, SMN, MCH) have many players feeling that it is incomplete; missing what it had and not having what it needs. Then what if 7.0 ends the leveling experience @ 99?

Also, has a "solid foundation" job ever actually turned out to be just the foundation for something incredible? Somehow they seem to end up even more stripped down or getting a string of indecisive reworks lacking identity.

[xiiijra]

I don't know if Mr. Yoshida or any of the Devs reading this, but I feel that as a SMN main who starts doing savage raids, and since Devs planning to update jobs at 6.08 I need to voice my feedback/opinion



The Good thing

1. Lvl 90 summon primal II visual, where summoner finally manifested real primals



The Bad thing

1. The most glaring issue is that Job is dead boring before 90, that I now refuse to bring them to roulettes except the lvl 90 ones, luckily I started EW Summoner at 80, so I dont have to endure such pain
- L < 60 is basically spamming ruin, with boring fx
- 60 - 69 also basically spamming ruin with a bit fx /elemental re-skin, but still boring
- 70-89 the job becomes mildly decent with Bahamut, and phoenix

2. Lackluster FX for spells compared to likes of Red Mage and Reaper, especially they use the same but re-coloured sigil for elemental casting

3. Horrible DPS; I mean everything was good until you reach Savage Raids, where people starts to judge your class and Ilvl gear , that Some PF leaders starts to inquire whenever I have Red Mage instead SMN for DPS Support. With higher Dps, double cast revive, ver-cure, mobility, Red Mage does everything better.

4. Ifrit (and maybe Garuda) is a liability, high price but yields low dps, no tactical buffs; we summon it because there is nothing better to do while waiting for Bahamut



What can they improve (I wont address FX/Visual issue since I knew its subjective)

1. Making Carbuncle / Egi Glamour of your choice auto attack (ranged)

2. Instead of buffing raw potency, add more skills / OGCD skills, since the buttons kinda empty here

3. Adding more summon, although I understand this is a pricey option, which they unlikely to implement

[Megguido]

[...]

I can't really agree with that :
1. There's not a lot of things that change at lvl 90 (visual clutter aside). Like I can play SMN at lvl 50 and it feels exactly the same as lvl 90, just without the Astral flow skills and the flashy fx.

2. Lackluster fx pre-lvl 90, at 90 it's too much. Can we have an in-between ?

3. DPS is slightly below RDM. I wouldn't say no to a little bump-up, but we're nowhere "horrible DPS". Vercure isn't going to save anyone 95% of the time, whereas a rekindle on the tank costs nothings and help a bit the healers to manage the boss' auto attacks. How can RDM be more mobile than SMN, when SMN has like 4 hard casts per minute ?

I keep seeing people asking for more summons. How would that help when they couldn't even balance the 3 we have now ?


My wishlist for SMN would be like:
1. Make Carby always on field. Summoning a primal / demi-summon no longer eats Carbuncle, so we can always use Searing Light / Aegis

2. Reduce Ruby Rite and Slipstream cast and recast time to 2.5s

3. Buff all Ifrit abilities so the "hardest" phase is rewarded with better DPS

4. Do something interesting with Energy Drain and Fester

[Mondschnee]

I think comparing Vercure to the Phoenix heal doesn't work as you have Phoenix only every two minutes. I've been in countless situations where it did absolutely nothing as everybody was in full health, where as you can use Vercure whenever you want and you can keep a tank or yourself long enough to chain raise the healers and they handle the rest. Just do Vercure > Verraise > Vercure > Verraise > Vercure and so on. It's more useful than what SMN has on every level.

In my personal opinion, SMN should do more damage, however I don't want to get that "for free". I want more buttons to press and more cast times to earn myself that. As many people have said before, SMN right now is a good foundation, but we're at level 90. There should be at least some kind of complexity involved that makes the job engaging and rewarding when playing.

I still play SMN because I can't let go but it really doesn't satisfy me. Not even my summons make me proud as they're nothing but aesthetics and deep down I can't overlook that.

[CKNovel]

Yea... but it's also a level 90 job, not 50. We are long long past setting foundations. The jobs they have revamped (DRK, SMN, MCH) have many players feeling that it is incomplete; missing what it had and not having what it needs. Then what if 7.0 ends the leveling experience @ 99?

MCH still has 2 gauges that only uses 1 button for each gauge. GNB has 3 buttons that uses ammos in comparison.
DRK has still not use for Darkside. It lasts 60 seconds and every 60 seconds you're supposed to dump your MP in Edge of Darkness. Darkside is a trait, you don't have to care at all about darkside, even if it was a hidden timer and no tooltip in the game would tell you about it, you would still maitain it 100% of the time.
Both living shadow and automaton queen are press and forget. You could add billions of traits and new attacks, they would remain "press and forget". And the worst part is that the more they are expanded upon, the clunkier they will become. Automaton Queen already suffers from its second finisher.

Not only those "foundation jobs" have the depth of a puddle, but some of their mechanics are already in needs of QoLs.
I really would like to see the designer explaining to me why the second finisher on the Queen was a good idea but that's another topic.

SMN will only get 1 or 2 new buttons and one of them has a high chance of being a utility button.
They simply can't add a new lego, that would push bahamut/phoenix out of party buffs.

[Shurrikhan]

Both living shadow and automaton queen are press and forget. You could add billions of traits and new attacks, they would remain "press and forget"..

The sad thing is how easy it is to make them something we'd care about. Automaton Queen already has half the equation, flexible timing. Both, though, need interaction.

Imagine, for instance, if Living Shadow worked more like Dancing Rune Weapon, duplicating your attacks at 25% effect (including Blood and MP generation), or even a whopping 50% after reducing your damage first by 25% (still a 12% net damage increase atop the 50% increased resource gen).

Similarly, imagine if MCH actually had a mechanic again, such as a (streamlined) return to its proc chances as to make its 'combo' actually worth having separate buttons for. (No, I don't count as "mechanics" gauge-spenders without interaction, ceaseless 1-2-3 cycles, or hitting CDs as they come up.)

For instance, what if it got back both Rook and Bishop, both now nicely mobile, as spenders (or returned to AAs that can be burst for subsequent downtime), each with further options, such as Wildfire from Bishop (coating the target and those nearby in aetherized accelerant) and Tracer Fire from Rook, with respective ramp-up or capitalization mechanics. If Automaton Queen remains in the mix, as some form of later-unlocked variant, give it moments of opportunity, such as Clean Shot having a doubled crit bonus and Crowned Collider being an active cast and briefly guaranteeing a crit on your next shot (or shots within a given, brief duration) against the target struck.