What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Reinha]

What would the ancients have done if Venat didn't sunder the world?

Found more reasons to sacrifice lives to Zodiark until no one was left to enjoy the paradise he would restore. Another world to Meteion's report.

Sundered people may be weak and face a lot of struggles but at least they cling to life. They don't just wave goodbye to a friend who is about to commit suicide, nor do they celebrate the death of their close ones. Venat in essence removed all nuclear weapons from earth at the expense of causing famine and wars. It's cruel, but it also stopped people from destroying the world entirely.

[Nilroreo]

Found more reasons to sacrifice lives to Zodiark until no one was left to enjoy the paradise he would restore. Another world to Meteion's report.

Do you have evidence to support this claim? we never even get to see what would happen had the unsundered world continued to exist past its expiration date. Ultimately, the sudered world had something the ancients never had, Hydaelyn's support and the power of hindsight courtesy of our trip to Elpis, luxuries that were never granted to the ancients themselves. So, until the game itself confirms that the ancients would "sacrifice lives to Zodiark until no one was left to enjoy the paradise he would restore," I'll just throw this claim into the bin of baseless conjectures.

Sundered people may be weak and face a lot of struggles but at least they cling to life.

At the end of Shadowbringers, G'raha, when asked by Y'shtola why he still lives despite us having averted the 8UC describes the situation as an "unexpected development." G'raha and his collaborators had every intention to carry out a plan they expected would result in the complete erasure of all lives on etherys, as well as the remaining shards that were in no way made privy to any of their plans, just because they couldn't live a reality in which the WoL was dead. The lives of an entire existence, not just one planet, but all of existence across an entire universe, snuffed out just to save one person. Please explain to me how the ancients planning to sacrifice just a singular planets worth of life is deemed the single most deplorable act across the games history.

[Garet]

Do you have evidence to support this claim? we never even get to see what would happen had the unsundered world continued to exist past its expiration date. Ultimately, the sudered world had something the ancients never had, Hydaelyn's support and the power of hindsight courtesy of our trip to Elpis, luxuries that were never granted to the ancients themselves. So, until the game itself confirms that the ancients would "sacrifice lives to Zodiark until no one was left to enjoy the paradise he would restore," I'll just throw this claim into the bin of baseless conjectures.



At the end of Shadowbringers, G'raha, when asked by Y'shtola why he still lives despite us having averted the 8UC describes the situation as an "unexpected development." G'raha and his collaborators had every intention to carry out a plan they expected would result in the complete erasure of all lives on etherys, as well as the remaining shards that were in no way made privy to any of their plans, just because they couldn't live a reality in which the WoL was dead. The lives of an entire existence, not just one planet, but all of existence across an entire universe, snuffed out just to save one person. Please explain to me how the ancients planning to sacrifice just a singular planets worth of life is deemed the single most deplorable act across the games history.

It was clearly implied had the other ascians not opposed the pro-zodiark faction, that all of their people will eventually be sacrificed to zodiark. Even until the end they really could not truly defeat what was ailing their planet. Zodiark created an aether like shield that temporarily shielded them and they wanted to sacrifice more and more in the hopes that zodiark can permanently stop what is causing the final days and maybe resurrect whoever was sacrificed to it after it defeated what was causing the finaly days. But the final days isn't a simple calamity as we later learned and sacrficing more to zodiark would have only extended his protection which will still eventually run out once there is no one left to sacrifice and the power of despair that Meteion eternally bring about will come and destroy everything.

[Nilroreo]

It was clearly implied had the other ascians not opposed the pro-zodiark faction that all of their people will eventually be sacrificed to zodiark. Even until the end they really could not truly defeat what was ailing their planet. Zodiark created an aether like shield that temporarily shielded them and they wanted to sacrifice more and more in the hopes that zodiark can permanently stop what is causing the final days and maybe resurrect whoever was sacrificed to it. But the final days isn't a simple calamity as we later learned and sacrficing more to zodiark would have only extended his protection which will still eventually run out once there is no left to sacrifice and the power of despair that meteion eternally bring about will come and destroy everything.

When was it ever stated that the Zodiark plan required anything more than the 3 sacrifices we currently know about? Zodiark has existed for over 10K years sustaining himself solely on the prayers directed at him, and not once was it even suggested that his protection was waning overtime, atleast not as far as I can remember.

[Garet]

When was it ever stated that the Zodiark plan required anything more than the 3 sacrifices we currently know about? Zodiark has existed for over 10K years sustaining himself solely on the prayers directed at him, and not once was it even suggested that his protection was waning overtime, atleast not as far as I can remember.

They were planning to sacrifice more to zodiark before Venat's faction decided to create hydaelyn to counter and stop zodiark and his followers. Emet even said that the sacrifices would not be in vain because they are hoping Zodiark can bring back all the ascians that were sacrificed to it. That was why they wanted to create the rejoining, so that they can continue where they left off and power up zodiark to defeat the whatever the finals days was and bring back their people to life.

Edit: They actually showed the scene of Ascians, in their despair, sacrificing themselves to zodiark in the hope of averting the final days which finally made Venat sunder the world. I think they create that scene specifically to show one part of Venat's reason of sundering the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlA0lGrSRqM

This is why Emet said to our character at the end that the "past they were looking for is not the future we are building towards to" Emet understood already that their way was not the best way to defeat the final days and for the future. But he is duty bound to do what he planned to do before as the holder of the title Emet Sech. But deep inside he knew we were the best chance against the final days hence even back in shadowbringers he helped us against Elidibus to "put his friend to rest" and put his trust on us.

[KizuyaKatogami]

They were planning to sacrifice more to zodiark before Venat's faction decided to create hydaelyn to counter and stop zodiark and his followers. Emet even said that the sacrifices would not be in vain because they are hoping Zodiark can bring back all the ascians that were sacrificed to it. That was why they wanted to create the rejoining, so that they can continue where they left off and power up zodiark to defeat the whatever the finals days was and bring back their people to life.

Edit: They actually showed the scene of Ascians, in their despair, sacrificing themselves to zodiark in the hope of averting the final days which finally made Venat sunder the world. I think they create that scene specifically to show one part of Venat's reason of sundering the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlA0lGrSRqM

This is why Emet said to our character at the end that the "past they were looking for is not the future we are building towards to" Emet understood already that their way was not the best way to defeat the final days and for the future. But he is duty bound to do what he planned to do before as the holder of the title Emet Sech. But deep inside he knew we were the best chance against the final days hence even back in shadowbringers he helped us against Elidibus to "put his friend to rest" and put his trust on us.

The thing is, for all they knew, the final days was averted. So you’re entire argument is Null. They had planned 3 total sacrifices, no more than that. The first was to stop the final days. The second was to restore life to the final days. These two are the ones that went through. The final and 3rd set of sacrifices was to sacrifice a portion of the new life to bring back the souls inside Zodiark. There is nothing literally nothing that implies there would be more than that. The only one who knew that the final days was still a threat was Venat and arguably some of her followers.

Venat was an Ancient like the rest of them. When you have power like that, every decision affects the fate of others. It took only one depressed Ancient to almost destroy the entire universe. If a bunch of Ancients had the right to sacrifice a bunch of unborn, unwilling lives to Zodiark, Venat also had the right to do what she did.

So what im getting from this is, you unironically think it was okay and that she had the right to commit mass genocide to her people, splitting them apart and then causing mass death in the long run, all because she decided not to face the problem head on and instead put all of it onto one person, gave up hope on her own people, and contradicted the very themes this expansion has been constantly shoving in our faces...It's an interesting take for sure.

[Reinha]

So what im getting from this is, ... It's an interesting take for sure.

Try asking what I think next time, instead of projecting your viewpoints onto me and calling them mine.

[Garet]

The thing is, for all they knew, the final days was averted. So you’re entire argument is Null. They had planned 3 total sacrifices, no more than that. The first was to stop the final days. The second was to restore life to the final days. These two are the ones that went through. The final and 3rd set of sacrifices was to sacrifice a portion of the new life to bring back the souls inside Zodiark. There is nothing literally nothing that implies there would be more than that. The only one who knew that the final days was still a threat was Venat and arguably some of her followers.

The Vidoe of the scene I posted is basically a summary of the mood of the final days. While the Final Days was indeed forestalled the mood and despair continued which led to people sacrificing themselves to zodiark and if you go back to the CS from 2.0 till present theme of the struggle between hydaelyn and zodiark was that the ascian was planning to sacrifice more and more to empower zodiark in the hope of permanently stopping the final days to which hydaelyn's faction opposed since what is the point of stopping the final days if there will be none left in the end at the rate it is going.

You said it yourself they really did not know that their plan will fail because only Venat knew that the threat still exist hence she acted based on that knowledge knowing that sacrificing more to Zodiark will not end the final days and their plan will fail because zodiark cannot end the final days. The Ascians' plan for zodiark rests on the assumption that it can permanently stop the finals days then restore the lives sacrificed to it. But as we all know now it was never going to happen because zodiark can only forestall and not stop the final days. Especially as the Ascians themselves easily gives in to "despair" and offer themselves up to zodiark in the belief it can restore everything back to the way it was, which Again was not happening.

Even Emet Sech without yet reclaiming his memories knew these deep inside hence he indirectly helped us back in shadowbringer. He was just too duty bound to his position of Emet Sech to do anything else but follow the plan they started in the past despite knowing these.

[Nilroreo]

They were planning to sacrifice more to zodiark before Venat's faction decided to create hydaelyn to counter and stop zodiark and his followers. Emet even said that the sacrifices would not be in vain because they are hoping Zodiark can bring back all the ascians that were sacrificed to it. That was why they wanted to create the rejoining, so that they can continue where they left off and power up zodiark to defeat the whatever the finals days was and bring back their people to life.

Edit: They actually showed the scene of Ascians, in their despair, sacrificing themselves to zodiark in the hope of averting the final days which finally made Venat sunder the world. I think they create that scene specifically to show one part of Venat's reason of sundering the world.

That scene was just depicting the second set of sacrifices made to restore the world back from the hellhole it's become. The third and final set of sacrifices would've exchanged anyone or anything that wasn't an Amaurotine (i think) for all lives that were initially sacrificed the first 2 times.

Emet understood already that their way was not the best way to defeat the final days and for the future.

The final encounter against Emet in Shadowbringers was a battle of conviction. It wasn't about who was right or wrong, but about who was willing to go the extra mile to claim the world for themselves. We won that battle and Emet, with his final words, asked us to protect the star and to remember the part they played in its salvation. We never get to see what form the world wouldve taken had Emet gotten his way, or Venat hadn't been apprehensive and actually shared what she knew. All were left with in the end is Emet in his own words telling us the ascians were idiots and never would've succeeded. why? just cuz.

[Latarma]

Do you have evidence to support this claim? we never even get to see what would happen had the unsundered world continued to exist past its expiration date. Ultimately, the sudered world had something the ancients never had, Hydaelyn's support and the power of hindsight courtesy of our trip to Elpis, luxuries that were never granted to the ancients themselves. So, until the game itself confirms that the ancients would "sacrifice lives to Zodiark until no one was left to enjoy the paradise he would restore," I'll just throw this claim into the bin of baseless conjectures.



At the end of Shadowbringers, G'raha, when asked by Y'shtola why he still lives despite us having averted the 8UC describes the situation as an "unexpected development." G'raha and his collaborators had every intention to carry out a plan they expected would result in the complete erasure of all lives on etherys, as well as the remaining shards that were in no way made privy to any of their plans, just because they couldn't live a reality in which the WoL was dead. The lives of an entire existence, not just one planet, but all of existence across an entire universe, snuffed out just to save one person. Please explain to me how the ancients planning to sacrifice just a singular planets worth of life is deemed the single most deplorable act across the games history.

yes the iron works of the future where they sedn G'raha tot he frist dose change there future and the futures fo all the shards. aslo the people whom G'raha work witha re still alive safly keped out of tiem by Midgardxoum as explaned int he post shadowbrigners tail on the lordstone. also yes condeming the peoples fo the univers to death to save unt he Wol is a bad but with out live saved we are able to save not olnt the frist, the soures adn all the other reflections but the universe as whole as Hyldin said at the end of ARR "go forth and shine they light on all creation" yes trading billions fo lives for us was bad but give that we retrned life to the univerise most would be ok with a line for Superanatural coemt o midn dealign with autiant time. "bettter to never have been born then to be dead?" neathe zodark or Hyldian were eave or wrogn they went about there goals differnly even Emet says as much "we woudln'th ave carried mankidn this far" but he also says his idear were right.