Do the Scions know? (Spoilers)

[DPZ2]

I don't know, "Your breath is my breath, your aether is my aether" is kind of on-the-nose.

Sounds almost like a marriage proposal.

[DPZ2]

Also even if they're both "1/14" there's actually reason to believe that all shards are not created equal, as with the description we're given of Hydaelyn's power to sunder things it's actually dividing things in half. This would mean the First, as the first shard sundered from the Source, actually has half the aetherial density of the unsundered world, while the Thirteenth, being the last sundered shard, would have like 0.001% the density of the original. The point here is that assuming them to be exactly equivalent is debatable.

Explaining the mathematics behind the sundering of shards has been a time-honored pursuit of methodologies behind the "Hydaelyn Complex" conspiracy since the Moogles left their homeland during what we now know as "the Great Blowing". Unfortunately, empirical evidence of that Event is only provided by the number of papers written about the conjectured aetherial density differences between "Shards", whatever those may be. In this work, I will attempt to prove that one of fourteen is, indeed, 1/14.

- Daneel Than, The Mathematics of Wind, Eorzean Press, 1577.

[Kesey]

I don't know, "Your breath is my breath, your aether is my aether" is kind of on-the-nose.

Idk, I took that this line to mean a more romantic inclination. Actually, it would be kinda cute, if and when they meet Ryne and Gaia they are motivated to act on their feelings.

[Iscah]

It just sounds like an incantation to me, or perhaps a sort of meditative thing as they prepare to cast the spell, since they need to be in sync with each other.

[AnthonyMorningstar]

This is true. It is unclear if Ryne is/was another part of Minfilia's soul, or if it was just Minfilia using her "Ascian-like" powers to control random girls, in limited capacity. Based on the clues we are given, Ryne being a part of Minfilia's soul makes the most sense, since Minfilia said, one of them would cease to exist; and we know that once Ardbert merged with us he ceased to exist as an individual. Plus it stands to reason that controlling a part of yourself is easier than controlling someone else. There is also the fact that Ryne has become the new "soul jar". Though how that would function with her on the first is unknown. Hopefully, that means she'll come to the source, I would love to see F'lhaminn fawn all over her.

That's actually a common misconception based on a "mis-localization" I will call it for a lack of a better word. In Japanese, there is no such thing as a "Paragon of the Source" as its called and the reason I bring this up is, because its stated that any soul shard can be alive while others are "dead" or "rejoined" meaning that a soul doesn't necessarily have to be returned to the soul of the Source. If, for example, Fandaniel died while on the Source his soul on the First continues on and his soul on the First could contain the soul that was on the Source. It's never explicitly stated in Japanese that the Source's soul becomes host to all the other shards after they become rejoined, the only reason this is the only outcome we have seen in game until Shadowbringers is because the rejoinings obviously return the shard to the Source, but its not the only viable outcome. A soul on the 13th, for example, could contain all other shards including the soul of the Source on that reflection if circumstances dictated it just like if you wanna believe that Ryne was a shard of whoever Minifila was as an Ancient. Hope that makes sense.

[Iscah]

its stated that any soul shard can be alive while others are "dead" or "rejoined" meaning that a soul doesn't necessarily have to be returned to the soul of the Source.

Alive and dead has nothing to do with the soul returning to their Source counterpart. The only thing that causes that is a rejoining.

The rest of the time, at least as we currently understand it, the soul shard just returns to that world-shard's aetherial sea to be reborn in that world again.

Some of a particular soul's shards might be alive at the same time others are dead and in the aetherial sea waiting to be reborn, but it's still one shard per world and they don't mix at any point.

If, for example, Fandaniel died while on the Source his soul on the First continues on and his soul on the First could contain the soul that was on the Source.

No it doesn't. Source-Fandaniel has died and his soul (being 8/14 of the original, as with everything in the Source) goes to the Source's aetherial sea. His First counterpart is completely unaffected.

If soul shards rejoined upon death, their sundering would be resolved within a few generations.

The only reason Ryne hypothetically might have become the "container" for a semi-rejoined soul is because Minfilia has brought her 8/14 shards from the Source into the First. So IF they were the same soul, Ryne has received those extra pieces by unnatural means with no relation to the usual cycle of souls. Her now-9/14 soul would continue to cycle through the First's aetherial sea upon death but would not receive any further shards.

In any case the speculation on that particular example seems to have been rendered irrelevant by Endwalker. Hydaelyn says she returned Minfilia's soul to the Source's aetherial sea, indicating that she is separate from the still-living Ryne.

It's never explicitly stated in Japanese that the Source's soul becomes host to all the other shards after they become rejoined, the only reason this is the only outcome we have seen in game until Shadowbringers is because the rejoinings obviously return the shard to the Source, but its not the only viable outcome.

We are explicitly told that all of the aether in a shard is rejoined to the Source upon the event of a Rejoining. We are explicitly told that we are "seven times rejoined". We are explicitly told how rejoinings work, complete with nifty PowerPoint presentation from the Exarch.

And if you don't agree with me, or think it's just the English version making that claim, then you can take it from the 2019 lore Q&A with Yoshida and head lore writer Banri Oda:

4. Emet-Selch remarks that we are of the Source, "seven times rejoined". Is he talking about our soul, or only the world? If our soul has been rejoined, does that mean everyone on the Source has been rejoined to another soul-fragment each Calamity, or are we (and perhaps other specific characters) special in some way?

Oda: Each time there is a rejoining, any living things have the souls rejoined. This is true for everyone equally. The souls get more dense, and potentially more powerful.

Yoshida: The Rejoining isn't just for the characters, but for the whole world. Of course, this does apply to yourself, as well.

Even if a rejoining of two shards rather than Source and shard is possible, the Ascians are not trying to do so, and that still would not draw in any more soul shards than the two involved in the event.

[Rosenstrauch]

There is something to be said about bumping a year old thread with wrong information. But whatever. Neat to see this thread back up.

In any case the speculation on that particular example seems to have been rendered irrelevant by Endwalker. Hydaelyn says she returned Minfilia's soul to the Source's aetherial sea, indicating that she is separate from the still-living Ryne.

I don't know whether to feel vindicated because I called it, irritated that this feels like a retcon just to enable her cameo appearance in the Aitiascope, overjoyed because it opens up the possibility of her revival, or confused because Endwalker also strongly implied that Ryne really did have the Echo all along without actually saying so before dumping her out of the story altogether, followed by Hydaelyn/Venat being killed without ever so much as acknowledging her existence. I wonder if the devs will make that have consequences for her, since her Blessing seemed a cut above even our own—which was itself vague in its powers until Endwalker went "no it's just a magic shield that does what you thought the Echo did all along".

Shoot, Gaia's power came from Zodiark, too. I wonder if they'll both end up depowered, or if they'll keep their powers and have some explanation for that.

[Iscah]

this feels like a retcon just to enable her cameo appearance in the Aitiascope

On the other hand, it does let Hydaelyn say-without-saying that she also brought Emet's soul back at the same time.

But yes, the whole situation with Ryne is very muddled and they need to explain it clearly at some point. The next lore Q&A opportunity should be interesting.

Gaia seemed a mess even within the Eden plot though. She's supposedly the Oracle of Darkness, equal and opposite to Ryne, directly powered by some sliver of Zodiark... except no wait she isn't the single chosen one at all, she's "just" one of the sundered Ascians, who has Ascian powers even without being properly raised to her seat, and the "fairy" in her mind is Mitron rather than Zodiark.

[Vyrerus]

On the other hand, it does let Hydaelyn say-without-saying that she also brought Emet's soul back at the same time.

But yes, the whole situation with Ryne is very muddled and they need to explain it clearly at some point. The next lore Q&A opportunity should be interesting.

Gaia seemed a mess even within the Eden plot though. She's supposedly the Oracle of Darkness, equal and opposite to Ryne, directly powered by some sliver of Zodiark... except no wait she isn't the single chosen one at all, she's "just" one of the sundered Ascians, who has Ascian powers even without being properly raised to her seat, and the "fairy" in her mind is Mitron rather than Zodiark.

Kinda, Venat says in the same breath that she, "also brought back another soul who may prove useful to your quest." Which we now know concretely was Emet.

As for Gaia being special, I think there was still the line about how she was supposed to be the heart for Zodiark, but they changed it to Elidibus for an unexplained reason (now likely to follow through with time paradox shenanigans which is an inverted irony of sorts since Gaia seems to have time manipulation powers on her own).

Another sort of ironic thing is that Ryne is supposed to be important, but winds up unimportant now. Turns out she was given a Traveler's Ward that imparts soul sight or something rather banal compared to being a vessel for Hydaelyn's power or whatever. Course, I guess it probably comes off that way, because that's the powers that were retained after they were mostly used up stopping the flood and reincarnating a half dozen times by Minfilia.

[Veloran]

irritated that this feels like a retcon just to enable her cameo appearance in the Aitiascope,

Same. In ShB the setup was clearly that Minfilia and Ryne were to be rejoined and that only one of them would remain the "true self" afterwards with the other being subsumed into the soul. Emet, the guy that can see souls, even calls Ryne a reincarnation and says the conflict is about them "becoming one, body and soul". That's about as explicit as it gets, but now apparently Minfilia just dumped her Blessing of Light on Ryne and got yoinked back to the Source so she can show up for some cheap nostalgia for a few minutes? Meanwhile Ryne only gets an unvoiced cameo.

In fact, based on what she says at that time, about Hydaelyn's presence feeling distant, then close, then distant again, then feeling like her connection to her was severed, it makes me wonder if Minfilia's soul was joined with Ryne, and then Hydaelyn just took it back.