A PvP Driven Expansion For 7.0

[Penthea]

Oh, so then you are just being disingenuous. Alright then.

I see you have no comeback for me pointing out that the majority of WoW's servers were pve even in Vanilla. Nice to know

[Velnora]

I see you have no comeback for me pointing out that the majority of WoW's servers were pve even in Vanilla. Nice to know

That isn't even an argument. It was still toggable, and people did BG's.

[Shurrikhan]

That isn't even an argument. People did BG's.

BGs didn't even give XP, let alone source leveling gear; they weren't integral to the game, but simply fun side-content. And, perhaps for that reason, the number of dungeon hours played far exceeded those spent across all instanced PvP.

I enjoyed and still enjoy WoW's battlegrounds. The game and its players are still very much focused primarily on PvE, however, despite the multitudes of ways PvP has been made more lucrative over its expansions (including being the fastest gearing path by far in Shadowlands endgame).

[Velnora]

The "drive" of a game is almost definitively fundamental to said game.

I don't think PvP elements or theming would be the worst thing ever -- if done well and leaving the actual, direct combat with other players optional, and that's a hell of a caveat. Heck, the original plan for 1.x actually involved a fair bit of PvP (and is now basically just the warring, Eikon-summoning factions of FF16).

But moving from "PvP is a barely supported afterthought" to "PvP is required and even locks which portions of the economy, and perhaps world, that you may interact with behind factions" would indeed be a fundamental change.

You can't "almost definitely"

[Velnora]

BGs didn't even give XP, let alone source leveling gear; they weren't integral to the game, but simply fun side-content. And, perhaps for that reason, the number of dungeon hours played far exceeded those spent across all instanced PvP.

I enjoyed and still enjoy WoW's battlegrounds. The game's very much focused primarily on PvE, however, despite the multitudes of ways PvP has been made more lucrative over its expansions (including being the fastest gearing path by far in Shadowlands endgame).

They do not have to give exp, in order to be a major focus of gameplay

[Penthea]

That isn't even an argument. It was still toggable, and people did BG's.

Well we have bgs in FFXIV already. As for toggling pvp in pve servers that wasn't super common as those who wanted proper open-world pvp played on actual pvp servers for obvious reasons.

And you're saying it isn't an argument because you don't like that what I'm saying is true. WoW did and still does have a well-known pvp scene but it has always been dwarfed by pve both by player participation and development focus.

[Shurrikhan]

You can't "almost definitely"

Definitively. As in "having been conclusively defined, delineated, and ambiguities resolved (generally by common convention)". See also "by definition".

[Velnora]

Well we have bgs in FFXIV already. As for toggling pvp in pve servers that wasn't super common as those who wanted proper open-world pvp played on actual pvp servers for obvious reasons.

And you're saying it isn't an argument because you don't like that what I'm saying is true. WoW did and still does have a well-known pvp scene but it has always been dwarfed by pve both by player participation and development focus.

No, it isn't an argument because it's completely asinine and has no actual relevance. It has more PvE servers, therefore PvP doesn't really matter. That's so incredibly stupid, and straw grasping.

"always been dwarfed by pve both by player participation and development focus"

Yeah, I guess that's why all the major servers are PvP focused. Illidan, Tichondrius, Area 52, etc.

[Velnora]

Definitively. As in "having been conclusively defined, delineated, and ambiguities resolved (generally by common convention)". See also "by definition".

Right. You can't "almost".

[Penthea]

No, it isn't an argument because it's completely asinine and has no actual relevance. It has more PvE servers, therefore PvP doesn't really matter. That's so incredibly stupid, and straw grasping.

Please direct me to where I said pvp doesn't matter because I don't recall ever saying anything like that.

"always been dwarfed by pve both by player participation and development focus"

Less than 1% of the quests in WoW are for pvp and the game is nearly 20 years old. People typically lvl up with quests and dungeons, those are pve. The most famous high-end teams in the entire game are all raiding teams and raiding is pve. Battlegrounds are an option for gaining xp but it's far more efficient to lvl up in pve.

Again not saying the pvp-scene has no relevance, it certainly does. Some of the most famous WoW streamers focus on pvp...but none of this changes that the game has always been mostly focused on pve. It's like how FFXIV is a story-driven game but some of the most famous FFXIV streamers don't focus on that content at all.

Not even New World can truly boast being a pvp-driven game even though you can capture open-world regions and change the flow of the economy through doing that. Factions can end up owning the entire map of the game. WoW has nothing on this scale in pvp and you are trying to call it pvp-driven?