*Spoilers* Anyone feel joining Emet would have been better

[Veloran]

If we're doing the former then yeah we do sort of have an obligation to accept everything piled upon on plates for consumption. I don't like every element of the story either, but no matter how crap a certain part of it might be, it's still part of it.

There isn't much actual discussion to be had if everyone is just picking and choosing their favourite bits and discarding the rest, none of us will be talking about the same thing.

By that same token it's hardly reasonable to suggest ignoring inconvenient information ala "1.0 Echo isn't canon because it can't be rationalized with how it's talked about in Endwalker."

[Kordarion]

By that same token it's hardly reasonable to suggest ignoring inconvenient information ala "1.0 Echo isn't canon because it can't be rationalized with how it's talked about in Endwalker."

The issue with that is that it appears as if the 1.0 echo has been retconned rather than being ignored for its inconvenience. Keep in mind I've never played 1.0, but from what I can gather from what I've seen in this thread that most of its unique parts, like interacting with the past through the echo seems to have been dropped started in ARR. And its not like this doesn't have a precedent, during his recent Radio Mog Station interview Yoshi-P stated that as of 3.0 the devs had completely rewritten the Ascian lore from 1.0 and ARR. So its not out of the realm of possibility it was dropped like Gelmora and Silvertear appear to have been.

[Nayukhuut]

The issue with that is that it appears as if the 1.0 echo has been retconned rather than being ignored for its inconvenience. Keep in mind I've never played 1.0, but from what I can gather from what I've seen in this thread that most of its unique parts, like interacting with the past through the echo seems to have been dropped started in ARR. And its not like this doesn't have a precedent, during his recent Radio Mog Station interview Yoshi-P stated that as of 3.0 the devs had completely rewritten the Ascian lore from 1.0 and ARR. So its not out of the realm of possibility it was dropped like Gelmora and Silvertear appear to have been.

I think this is prolly the case. It seems that when Yoshi-p and his team took over, they essentially soft rebooted the story and completely changed it's direction in 2.0 (I also never played 1.0). They've tried to tie things together and mesh them as well as they can, often succeeding, but the original Echo might simply be a case of they didn't like that direction of it and decided to change it moving forwards. Normally game retcons like that would irk me too, but 1.0 was a bit of a special case so I'm willing to give em some wiggle room.

Gonna have to assume what we were told back in ARR, namely that the Echo works different for everybody, still applies even to the Ancients. Because what she told us doesn't exactly explain precognition abilities (which Azem seems to have).

Also, this too.

[Veloran]

They've tried to tie things together and mesh them as well as they can, often succeeding, but the original Echo might simply be a case of they didn't like that direction of it and decided to change it moving forwards.

It's a bit ironic, considering that using the Echo as it was used in 1.0 probably would have rectified the vast majority of issues surrounding Elpis, depending on the specifics. For example, say all the setup was the same, but instead of taking a portal to the past in CT WoL instead Echoes back through Elidibus' (now recovered) memories and you play as him for that entire section, watching everything go down and seeing everyone's memories get erased without having to escape it yourself.

[MikkoAkure]

It's a bit ironic, considering that using the Echo as it was used in 1.0 probably would have rectified the vast majority of issues surrounding Elpis, depending on the specifics. For example, say all the setup was the same, but instead of taking a portal to the past in CT WoL instead Echoes back through Elidibus' (now recovered) memories and you play as him for that entire section, watching everything go down and seeing everyone's memories get erased without having to escape it yourself.

The problem would then be trying to explain how you're able to travel back and forth since it's a freely accessible zone now.

[Veloran]

The problem would then be trying to explain how you're able to travel back and forth since it's a freely accessible zone now.

The current idea of being able to travel back and forth freely isn't exactly the best decision in the world. Frankly, I would rather they just unlocked aetheryte travel but explicitly say you aren't actually going there, just having a vision.

[MikkoAkure]

The current idea of being able to travel back and forth freely isn't exactly the best decision in the world. Frankly, I would rather they just unlocked aetheryte travel but explicitly say you aren't actually going there, just having a vision.

I feel like a lot of Endwalker's narrative is better the less you think about it. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Like many action movies, a lot of really cool stuff happens and it's a very enjoyable ride with a satisfying conclusion to 10 years worth of story (at least to me).

But I feel like more so than the other expansions due to the expanding and explanation of the lore, things in EW get weird when looked under a microscope like we've been doing for tons of pages across multiple threads. I give the writers some slack since I treat FFXIV as a theme park MMO where the gameplay comes first, cameos and nostalgia from past FF games comes next, and looping it all together comes after that. I feel like if Yoshi-P got his chance to start it from the beginning, there would be fewer plot holes, retcons, and "huh?" moments and the fact that it's an MMO itself doesn't exactly help. I'm excited to see what FFXVI will bring though.

[Nayukhuut]

The problem would then be trying to explain how you're able to travel back and forth since it's a freely accessible zone now.

This part seemed so odd to me. I had just assumed that after we left it was a one and done thing, but no... they keep sending me back there. In quests no less. People will be like "gee, I wish I had something from an ancient world long since lost to time. Shame that's impossible", and my WoL is like "oh, will this do? I basically live there now."

I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining. I had expected flashbacks this expansion, and getting to actually go back the the ancient world was more than my little fangirl heart could have dreamt of. I would even love to go back and see more of their culture. Maybe even Amaurot proper. I digress however. It just seems odd that a way for us to hop back to the past whenever we want just exists in the story. I guess that weird comes with the territory for our characters though.

[Jandor]

It's a bit ironic, considering that using the Echo as it was used in 1.0 probably would have rectified the vast majority of issues surrounding Elpis, depending on the specifics. For example, say all the setup was the same, but instead of taking a portal to the past in CT WoL instead Echoes back through Elidibus' (now recovered) memories and you play as him for that entire section, watching everything go down and seeing everyone's memories get erased without having to escape it yourself.

That idea does have potential to be honest. With 1.0 echo I don't think you'd even have to play as Elidibus to interact would you? You could be there and not be there at the same time, it even gels with Elidibus only sort of half-remembering you being there before you go.

I suppose the issue they've got there is that very few people are familiar with the 1.0 echo, while basically everyone is familiar with the concept of the crystal tower as a time machine. They'd have to lay some groundwork re-establishing it if they wanted to use it that way.

The problem would then be trying to explain how you're able to travel back and forth since it's a freely accessible zone now.

With a few tweaks they could have twisted the 'echo reading the land' ability into using the echo on the tower to travel back and forth. Would have to be done pretty carefully though.

But I feel like more so than the other expansions due to the expanding and explanation of the lore, things in EW get weird when looked under a microscope like we've been doing for tons of pages across multiple threads. I give the writers some slack since I treat FFXIV as a theme park MMO where the gameplay comes first, cameos and nostalgia from past FF games comes next, and looping it all together comes after that. I feel like if Yoshi-P got his chance to start it from the beginning, there would be fewer plot holes, retcons, and "huh?" moments and the fact that it's an MMO itself doesn't exactly help. I'm excited to see what FFXVI will bring though.

Yeah, it was 100% not all planned from the start and it shows. I'd forgotten about XVI, now that you've mentioned it though it will be interesting to see what Yoshi-P can do with a game he has control over from the beginning.

This part seemed so odd to me. I had just assumed that after we left it was a one and done thing, but no... they keep sending me back there. In quests no less. People will be like "gee, I wish I had something from an ancient world long since lost to time. Shame that's impossible", and my WoL is like "oh, will this do? I basically live there now."

The raid helps a little in this regard at least, establishing that while we TP for gameplay purposes, in-universe we have to back to the tower and use the portal there.

[Lauront]

It's a bit ironic, considering that using the Echo as it was used in 1.0 probably would have rectified the vast majority of issues surrounding Elpis, depending on the specifics. For example, say all the setup was the same, but instead of taking a portal to the past in CT WoL instead Echoes back through Elidibus' (now recovered) memories and you play as him for that entire section, watching everything go down and seeing everyone's memories get erased without having to escape it yourself.

It's what I genuinely wished they had done, i.e. made use of the Echo to obtain all this knowledge, and dispensed with the rather ridiculous time travel.