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  1. #1
    Player
    Rulakir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    977
    Character
    Sajah Lane
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 88
    The more I've thought about it, the more I've realized why the "new life" conflict would not have worked. It seems clear the writers want the players to like the Ancients, we're even meant to like Hermes. Had the new life contained humanoids they would've been even more vilified in players' minds. Likewise, had Hydaelyn's primary reason for the sundering been to protect new life in the absence of humanoids then she would have come across as some kind of "vegan eco-terrorist", as one person put it, and we're supposed to like her too. It also doesn't make any sense for the Ancients to sacrifice themselves to bring back non-Ancient humanoids. The priority would have been on restoring the basics for the planet to be inhabitable, re-creating ecosystems, etc.

    As for the rest, the Ancients who sacrificed themselves to Zodiark didn't return to the star, which changes things substantially. I wouldn't want the souls of my loved ones trapped inside of a primal indefinitely either. I'm surprised they went that direction because, in my mind, it makes the third sacrifice far more justifiable if only in terms of their souls being released.
    (9)

  2. #2
    Player
    Alleo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    4,730
    Character
    Light Khah
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 91
    Quote Originally Posted by Rulakir View Post
    The more I've thought about it, the more I've realized why the "new life" conflict would not have worked. It seems clear the writers want the players to like the Ancients, we're even meant to like Hermes. Had the new life contained humanoids they would've been even more vilified in players' minds.

    As for the rest, the Ancients who sacrificed themselves to Zodiark didn't return to the star, which changes things substantially. I wouldn't want the souls of my loved ones trapped inside of a primal indefinitely either. I'm surprised they went that direction because, in my mind, it makes the third sacrifice far more justifiable if only in terms of their souls being released.
    We can like the Ancients and still find the actions of the Ascians horrible so I honestly see no problem with it being sentient life. (And even the Ancients probably would have had no problem with undoing us, since they saw us just as a familiar) It could also showcase how such people can be changed by tragedy (and tempering).

    And about the sacrifice: Emet himself says that such a sacrifice would be held in high honor and that he would never cheapen that by creating fake shades. Yet he still did in the end. I think it was great how they showed the change in him. Also the people inside Zodiark seemed fine with that. They just were really depressed about the fact that Zodiark was bound right now but being Zodiark themselves? I got the feeling that they liked it. What better way to be the "drop of blood" for their beloved planet by being the will itself.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    Ayche's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Posts
    328
    Character
    Aychelle Tripler
    World
    Raiden
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lersayil View Post
    I am both baffled and amused by this statement. It applies so much to both sides, I'm honestly not sure which one you mean. If its intentional you have my admiration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrotica View Post
    There has been way more death and suffering as a result of Venats decision then would have been if she let the Convocation carry out their plan.
    I don't know what moral calculus is being applied here, but I do not know how the death of the whole natural world is somehow equalized to the demotion of few god-wizards. God-Wizards, who on the record, were responsible for their own doom. So when one god-wizard is turned into 13 farmers and fishers, and natural order gets to, you know, not get disintegrated, I fail to see the math here.
    (6)

  4. #4
    Player
    Lersayil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    568
    Character
    Lhei Amariyo
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayche View Post
    I don't know what moral calculus is being applied here, but I do not know how the death of the whole natural world is somehow equalized to the demotion of few god-wizards. God-Wizards, who on the record, were responsible for their own doom. So when one god-wizard is turned into 13 farmers and fishers, and natural order gets to, you know, not get disintegrated, I fail to see the math here.
    Guess it wasn't then... a shame. The best and most generous reading on the sundering is that Venat wiped out a civilization AND the natural order of the now restored planet. She didn't literally kill the individuals, just took their soul, sliced it up into 14 pieces and created 14 new individuals who had a soul similar to the original, but none of the memories. Oh and she also shortened their lifespans by a good amount. Even by the games own lore standards, that is as close as you can get to the process of death without calling it such. There are differences, but none that really affects the moral dilemma. She herself admits her deeds as terrible.

    She almost literally did what the Ancients planned to, but in the reverse. She sacrificed her own people for the life that would grow in their wake and the potential she saw in that.
    (11)
    Last edited by Lersayil; 01-13-2022 at 07:40 AM.

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