Yoshi-P Statement on Player Feedback

[Kaurhz]

Personally, I dislike the term white-knight as well, and I don't disagree with you, of course there's always the other side that acts in the same way. I'm just saying that Yoshi statement is going to be used by people that can't handle any type of critic if it doesn't fit into their own standards, and anything that doesn't reach that isn't worthy discussing or isn't being discussed in the "right" way. I can see this happening on the forums, if you don't see that or don't agree with that... Ok? Whatever? Each person with their own impressions.

I disagree with the tone, though. If you're insulting specific people, you're wrong, and I don't disagree… But I've seen people literally flame discussions simply because they didn't enjoy the tone of the person talking, like the dude that posted about job balance and people were hands down rude with them just because they used the word copium. IMO the community here is very sensitive with tone, they easily get upset if you don't use specific words, if you're sassy or even a bit ironic. It's easy to take this "your tone undermine your opinion" and turn into an "if you don't discuss things the same way I do, seeing from all the sides I do, you're wrong". Quickly, discussions turn into "you're just whining" and stuff like that.

Course it is, but those that use this will also be in the minority. This is just called the negativity bias. Besides, it goes back to my original point; People reap what they sow.

The reason it undermines their own argument is typically because of the means with which they present their argument or criticism. People will only construe these instances as people being upset because they aren't getting their own way, with comments such as troll, bait or petty. Almost to where the discussion itself becomes secondary to ad-hominem contesting. Genuine and valid discussions and criticisms quickly devolve into meaningless debate which leads to thread upon thread to be created for the self-same topic, each doomed to devolve and eventually die for the same reason as the previous. It has very little to do with trying to police or indoctrinate people into my line of thinking (personally I couldn't care less if people debate the way I do), but rather just a concern, and a perfectly valid one in the context of keeping the discussion meaningful.

For clarity (as per the initial edit); make a statement such as "You're casual, you wouldn't understand" - See how long it takes for a remark such as that to derail an entire thread or topic of discussion into an "us vs them" situation.

[UkcsAlias]

For clarity (as per the initial edit); make a statement such as "You're casual, you wouldn't understand" - See how long it takes for a remark such as that to derail an entire thread or topic of discussion into an "us vs them" situation.

I can give a team fortress 2 example on this regarding the pyro (which since its design has been problematic in balance). The pyro has multiple tresholds in skill vs effectivity:
- Lowest skill: very effective at almost no effort (W+M1)
- Mid skill: Starts to learn airblast, but stops using fire (effective against other pyros, mostly useless otherwise)
- Higher skill: Knows how to airblast while going in like W+M1, and starts flanking (decently effective, still easily hardcountered). Most important, starts using the shotgun (becomes effective at range)
- Top skill: Knows how to exploit the flanks and estimate player behaviour (suddenly becomes a monster that is problematic to handle for most of the players - but against equaly skilled, its better to go for a diffirent class as its simply more effective)

The problem here is that the pyro alway had limited attack range. But very high damage vs effort. The skilled actions are difficult to perform (making most people unable to use them properly). They have tried many things, but in the end, the pyro became only a defensive tool in pub games to mostly disrupt spies. They simply never managed to give the pyro good capabilities in ranged situations. Although this was part of its design, its also why its still a very broken class.

Casuals simply complain about the class being OP here, because they simply dont know how it works. Which for other classes is clearly visible. So there is a good reason for them derailing, because details start to matter in those cases. But when such case can show up, there is definitely some issue going on that probably goes even further (why is there such barricade in which you can start to seperate us and them?). Anyone that can find such issue therefor should mention it, as its not just the skilled that will benefit from that info, it helps those lower skilled ones from becoming better, and maybe even help devs at preventing that barricade from acting like one.

May i note that 1 of the biggest pyro issues was not just the class, but the way the server handled fire hitreg. A situation that ranked players knew for very long (the backburner was banned for a reason), yet took like 7 years to get fixed.