Disappointed in one Endwalker Aspect [SPOILERS]

[Veloran]

Remember, DRKs walk their path and will do whatever it takes to get the job done, even if it means causing undue suffering on others. Venat did much the same,

DRK doesn't target random people. Venat forced all of mankind to "walk the path" and suffer without their consent. There is clearly an element of personal choice for DRKs, both for taking up the job and interpreting it's meaning, that Venat did not afford the Ancients.

Everyone chose to walk their respective paths. When you get down to it, Temple Knight A might just be starting their first day on the job, with a family to feed. Perhaps they look after stray cats in their free time and mind an elderly neighbor. They never caused any harm to anyone. And then wham, Azem shows up out of nowhere and kills them. Did they have any choice about how their path ended?

If Temple Knight A wasn't going out of his way to defend someone perpetrating great evil he would have been fine. The knights we kill in the DRK quests are characterized as being part of an extremist, outrageously corrupt sect of the church that intentionally preys upon normal Ishgardian citizens. I mean they were literally just going around picking random maidens off the street to abuse.

It's actually Urianger who puts forward the idea that there's a connection between Azem, Azeyma, keeper of the Sun, and Azim, the Dawn Father. The glyph on the Azem soul crystal is the symbol for the sun.

Yes, and I'm saying that the Azem referenced by Azeyma is clearly more akin to Venat than how Azem is described.

[Kordarion]

There are three problems with that line of thinking:

I worded that pretty poorly didn't I, in hindsight I can think of a better way to phrase what I meant in regards to that Elidibus conversation. I think what I did was mix this part of his dialogue with a previous/future part, I can't remember if it came before or after, where he hints at having seen us, as in the player character, in past Elpis. As someone who has seen pre-destination paradoxes before, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban as an example, that line told me that we couldn't change the past because we were already a part of a closed loop that Elidibus had experienced parts of. I also think this is reinforced by the fact that during the first conversation with Venat/Hydaelyn on the boat to Sharlayan she mentions a confluence of her time and ours, something that immediately had me thinking we were eventually going to time-travel and the wording of which implies that the timelines are merging or there is/was a pre-destination paradox.

[Listrella]

i'd always called that she was good, there was never any hint that she was evil, this story decision makes sense.

[Rulakir]

The first is that everything Elidibus knows about time travel, as far as we know, comes from him studying G'raha's memories.

Thanks for the excellent explanation! I often forget that when G'raha embarked upon his mission that no one knew what the result would be and it was assumed both he and his original timeline would cease to exist if he succeeded in preventing the First from rejoining.

At any rate, there was cause to believe that the Ancients could be saved and, even if there weren't, a common sentiment expressed is that people wanted to save them.

[Lium]

I wasn't disappointed that Hydaelyn didn't turn out to be "evil." I was disappointed because I kind of went into EW hoping we would end up exploring a "third option" that I felt was hinted at back in Shb since we know Azem left the convocation and also did not respond to Venat's group. It would have been interesting for the writers to touch on something like that. My headcanon right now is that Azem didn't agree with either side and was trying to find a 3rd option.

If this was a single player game then I’m pretty sure the third option would have been the past Azem gaining the memories of the future Azem (us) in a way reminiscent of Nebula in Avengers: Endgame, which also featured time travel shenanigans.

Past Azem would have then begun a mission to track down Meteion and end the whole thing outright.

But this is an MMO so it has to be fairly linear.

[Shookbeast]

If this was a single player game then I’m pretty sure the third option would have been the past Azem gaining the memories of the future Azem (us) in a way reminiscent of Nebula in Avengers: Endgame, which also featured time travel shenanigans.

Past Azem would have then begun a mission to track down Meteion and end the whole thing outright.

But this is an MMO so it has to be fairly linear.

It’s possible we’re still working toward a third option with Azem. They’ve dropped so many clues - and it would be very easy (both story-wise, and technology-wise) to handwave our/Azem’s inclusion. It’s very likely we either meet Azem - or actually are Azem through time travel shenanigans.

My guess is the game will simply use our model, and explain that Azem prefers this form (which is why we got physical transformation plot points in Endwalker for Hermes and the Ancients).

Or, we may actually enter a loading screen - to create an Azem of our liking in the character creator.

Either is possible… Although I’m leaning toward them just using our character model. It may fit in lore-wise regarding a connection to the “new life” meant to be sacrificed to Zodiark, and the creation of the playable in-game races. Azem’s “third option” may have to do with defending the new life, while the Venat and Zodiark factions fight it out. Makes sense for Azem to defend the defenseless.

[Kizawa]

Literally this

[Ayche]

I am sure the art team can create an approximation of Azem based on each race, gender and face type. Azem can easily have their own unique hairstyle too, and just make one face per each race/gender combo that kinda looks like the chosen WoL.

[Lium]

It’s possible we’re still working toward a third option with Azem. They’ve dropped so many clues - and it would be very easy (both story-wise, and technology-wise) to handwave our/Azem’s inclusion. It’s very likely we either meet Azem - or actually are Azem through time travel shenanigans.

My guess is the game will simply use our model, and explain that Azem prefers this form (which is why we got physical transformation plot points in Endwalker for Hermes and the Ancients).

Or, we may actually enter a loading screen - to create an Azem of our liking in the character creator.

Either is possible… Although I’m leaning toward them just using our character model. It may fit in lore-wise regarding a connection to the “new life” meant to be sacrificed to Zodiark, and the creation of the playable in-game races. Azem’s “third option” may have to do with defending the new life, while the Venat and Zodiark factions fight it out. Makes sense for Azem to defend the defenseless.

This is an interesting point.

The third option actually is Azem.

[RyuDragnier]

It’s possible we’re still working toward a third option with Azem. They’ve dropped so many clues - and it would be very easy (both story-wise, and technology-wise) to handwave our/Azem’s inclusion. It’s very likely we either meet Azem - or actually are Azem through time travel shenanigans.

My guess is the game will simply use our model, and explain that Azem prefers this form (which is why we got physical transformation plot points in Endwalker for Hermes and the Ancients).

Or, we may actually enter a loading screen - to create an Azem of our liking in the character creator.

Either is possible… Although I’m leaning toward them just using our character model. It may fit in lore-wise regarding a connection to the “new life” meant to be sacrificed to Zodiark, and the creation of the playable in-game races. Azem’s “third option” may have to do with defending the new life, while the Venat and Zodiark factions fight it out. Makes sense for Azem to defend the defenseless.

There's the possibility of us seeing Azem wearing a mask, look away, cut back to them wearing a different one, and the gag continues while with him. Make Azem somewhat of a gag character who does that sort of thing but is dangerously competent in battle. Then probably have them looking like us at one point and saying, "Yeah, I can see why I'd choose this form, something about it just...screams me."