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  1. #261
    Player
    Shookbeast's Avatar
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    Dec 2021
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    160
    Character
    Gunnor Wolfshead
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RyuDragnier View Post
    There's the possibility of us seeing Azem wearing a mask, look away, cut back to them wearing a different one, and the gag continues while with him. Make Azem somewhat of a gag character who does that sort of thing but is dangerously competent in battle. Then probably have them looking like us at one point and saying, "Yeah, I can see why I'd choose this form, something about it just...screams me."
    I wouldn’t mind an Azem storyline that’s one part dramatic - and one part Hildibrand (:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lium View Post
    This is an interesting point.

    The third option actually is Azem.
    Maybe this is why the whole Venat/Zodiark debate is well, debatable? Eventually we’ll get to weigh in through an Azem storyline, and pick some (likely not too important) dialogue to voice how we feel about it - once we get the whole picture through Azem.
    (2)

  2. #262
    Player
    Lium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,026
    Character
    Brielle Artemus
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    I kind of doubt it because SE has been pretty adamant that the Hydaelyn/Zodiark story arc is now over, so I can't see them revisiting it. Not in gameplay anyway. Maybe as a side story on the Lodestone or even as a novel.
    (1)

  3. #263
    Player
    Shookbeast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    160
    Character
    Gunnor Wolfshead
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Lium View Post
    I kind of doubt it because SE has been pretty adamant that the Hydaelyn/Zodiark story arc is now over, so I can't see them revisiting it. Not in gameplay anyway. Maybe as a side story on the Lodestone or even as a novel.
    I think “the end” is more that we’re not gonna hear from Hydaelyn or be threatened by Zodiark any more. Plenty to do with Azem, since we’re still “leveling up” by collecting pieces of our soul - and the writers have seeded a mystery surrounding what Azem’s been up to for the last couple expansions.
    (4)

  4. #264
    Player
    Cleretic's Avatar
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    Sep 2021
    Location
    Solution Eight (it's not as good)
    Posts
    2,982
    Character
    Ein Dose
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    I still think that we never will get a definitive Azem Answer to this question, specifically because Azem is intended to be our avatar.

    The Zodiark/Hydaelyn thing was intentionally left morally open, with neither side being definitively right or wrong (Hydaelyn ended up being strategically correct, but that's rather different), and it's for that reason the writers left Azem neutral; because whichever side Azem favored would then become the implicitly correct decision. By the same token, Azem cannot then pioneer a third option, because the fact Azem is behind it then implicitly means it's the right one, and so both Zodiark and Hydaelyn become the incorrect choices.

    It's similar to when a game has multiple endings, yet only one is the 'true' or 'perfect' ending where everything is resolved or that just has more content; the existence of that ending means that all other endings are 'false' endings, thereby declaring all reasoning that leads to those endings to be wrong.

    Essentially: the fact people are sure Azem had a better idea is the reason that we should never hear if Azem had a better idea.
    (7)
    Last edited by Cleretic; 01-12-2022 at 07:01 PM.

  5. #265
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Azem 'defected' even prior to the decision to summon Zodiark. Venat's faction 'sent word' to Azem, but it's not clear if they actually made contact. It's unclear if this was related to the Convocation's discussion or something even earlier.

    I would laugh if we ever get a cutscene of Azem chasing an orias holding a certain green soul crystal into a portal, only to find themselves... in a swamp, with a bow on the ground and a Morbol up ahead.
    (7)

  6. #266
    Player RyuDragnier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    New Gridania
    Posts
    5,465
    Character
    Hayk Farsight
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    Essentially: the fact people are sure Azem had a better idea is the reason that we should never hear if Azem had a better idea.
    I'm of the mindset that Azem didn't have a better idea...but instead there was another threat just as big that needed to be dealt with. Such a thing would make for a good overarching problem for the next big story arc, especially if it's "unfinished business" for Azem.
    (3)

  7. #267
    Player
    Lium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,026
    Character
    Brielle Artemus
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami View Post
    Them continuing to sacrifice is pure headcanon. There’s nothing hinting towards that at all. The 3rd sacrifice was to bring their people back, what reason would they have to continue sacrificing? She also didn’t have a lot of supporters. Pretty sure it’s mentioned to have been about a dozen, of whom she didn’t even tell what her actual plans were which we have proof of due to anamnesis.

    As far as this expansion goes though, i do heavily agree it was played safe. There were basically zero long lasting consequences despite this being an apocalypse that one almost destroyed the entire planet. We only see the actual final days occur in two zones, whereas we merely see a few blasphemies pop up in eorzean zones. Pretty sad as many people were expecting more considering the trailer had the entire eorzean map on fire.
    Its because it’s an MMO not a single player game where you can drastically and permanently alter the game world for everyone.

    Unless you want to phase the game for the entire population.

    WoW changed a lot of the vanilla zones in Cataclysm and very few people look back at that fondly.
    (5)

  8. #268
    Player
    ReynTime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,677
    Character
    Princess Walk
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Denishia View Post
    On the in-game character making physical reactions that I as the player didn't feel- having to WoL reach out distract towards Emet Selch I felt was very unearned, because Shadowbringer nor Endwalker did NOT do anything to reverse my opinion of his personality as not merely unpleasant with negative charisma but an amalgamation of every horrible condescending coworker and boss I've had to suffer through and his motivations as contrary to mine own (I would have loved a joke response to his demand that I tell him info because of his position on the Convocation with a snarky, "My only interaction with the Convocation is murdering them because they kill trying to murder me"). He and Hythlodaeus might have been Azem's good friends- but me-as-the-WoL did not have a positive emotional attachment to them.

    To me, Hades is treated far more heroically and sympathetically than I feel justified and that his overwhelming continued presence and treatment inside the game was colored by his popularity outside of it.

    I agree that the why the story writes the relationship with Zenos is another were me as the player is emotionally disconnecting from what me-as-the-WoL is written to feel. I don't desire to fight him because I found him boring, both as a character and his actual fights, so if the in-game model was more accurate, it'd be eyerolls instead of clenched fists.

    But that is to say- how one reacts to characters is subjective. And after so many complaints about the WoL standing expressionless during cutscenes or only nodding, these later expansions are starting to address those complaints by adding in reactions- which means not all will land.

    And XIV isn't an open sandbox game, at least not the MSQ, nor does it have branching paths, so the single path that it does have has clearly defined protagonists and antagonists and supporting cast and one side will be the protagonists' side and the other given the focus needed to make antagonists work for the story.
    You're definitely not alone in the lack of empathy towards Emet. I like him as a villain but I definitely do not like the hipocrisy in some of his fanbase.
    It's weird how all these people looking for virtue signaling seem to love Emet despite him being directly responsible for a genocide brought upon a continent of people who were just trying to live in peace after fleeing from a star that had just been destroyed by invaders. And, y'know, multiple other genocides. That one just stands out to me as the cruelest.
    (7)

  9. #269
    Player
    Shookbeast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    160
    Character
    Gunnor Wolfshead
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    I still think that we never will get a definitive Azem Answer to this question, specifically because Azem is intended to be our avatar.

    The Zodiark/Hydaelyn thing was intentionally left morally open, with neither side being definitively right or wrong (Hydaelyn ended up being strategically correct, but that's rather different), and it's for that reason the writers left Azem neutral; because whichever side Azem favored would then become the implicitly correct decision. By the same token, Azem cannot then pioneer a third option, because the fact Azem is behind it then implicitly means it's the right one, and so both Zodiark and Hydaelyn become the incorrect choices.

    It's similar to when a game has multiple endings, yet only one is the 'true' or 'perfect' ending where everything is resolved or that just has more content; the existence of that ending means that all other endings are 'false' endings, thereby declaring all reasoning that leads to those endings to be wrong.

    Essentially: the fact people are sure Azem had a better idea is the reason that we should never hear if Azem had a better idea.
    I think maybe they’ve laid out some pretty clear game mechanics (collecting Azem pieces) and mentioned Azem too many times to have them just be background dressing. It feels pretty likely that we’re gonna get them at some point, in some fashion.

    And personally, I’m of the school that both Venat and the Convocation were wrong. The Convocation wanted to sacrifice the “new life” innocents, and Venat de-powered/mind-wiped an entire planet without their consent.

    In either version, I can’t see our prototypical WOL (Azem) agreeing. Nor can I see Azem’s little band of proto-Scions agreeing. So I’m holding out hope we get to see/hear/play Azem to flesh out that bit of story. I imagine it would/could echo the same problem facing our WOL and the Scions in regards to the moon evacuation (:
    (1)

  10. #270
    Player
    Rulakir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    977
    Character
    Sajah Lane
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 88
    Quote Originally Posted by Lium View Post
    WoW changed a lot of the vanilla zones in Cataclysm and very few people look back at that fondly.
    I was not a fan of the revamp. It wasn't because I was necessarily against the idea, initially I was excited, but it was poorly executed. Some zones retained their original charm while others bore no resemblance to their pre-cataclysm state. It'd be like turning Thanalan into an underwater zone, too much.

    WoW would have had something like specialty Final Days FATEs around the world at minimum. FFXIV seems to handle phasing well, so I wouldn't think that beyond their capabilities. I haven't played GW2 in forever, but I remember one of their early Living Story chapters trashed the middle of a zone that was just an open field. Aside from the tower they put there being an eyesore, nothing else was lost.
    (0)

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