Disappointed in one Endwalker Aspect [SPOILERS]

[Cleretic]

I think maybe they’ve laid out some pretty clear game mechanics (collecting Azem pieces) and mentioned Azem too many times to have them just be background dressing. It feels pretty likely that we’re gonna get them at some point, in some fashion.

And personally, I’m of the school that both Venat and the Convocation were wrong. The Convocation wanted to sacrifice the “new life” innocents, and Venat de-powered/mind-wiped an entire planet without their consent.

In either version, I can’t see our prototypical WOL (Azem) agreeing. Nor can I see Azem’s little band of proto-Scions agreeing. So I’m holding out hope we get to see/hear/play Azem to flesh out that bit of story. I imagine it would/could echo the same problem facing our WOL and the Scions in regards to the moon evacuation (:

Yeah, kinda proving my point there. You want Azem to provide the True Answer, thereby declaring both the Zodiark and Hydaelyn sides to have the Wrong Answer. Which is gonna peeve people off if they agreed with one of those sides, just in the same way that you'd be mad if Azem turned up only to say 'actually Hydaelyn was right all along'.

I don't think we'll ever actually see Azem. But if we ever do, or get an idea of what they were up to, I think they were off doing something entirely different. Maybe fighting some Secret Greater Evil (although I think if done poorly that could cause a similar problem; 'both sides were blind to the real evil'), but I would personally prefer it if it wasn't anything greater, and they were just... off doing the Azem Thing. Just because bigger problems exist, doesn't mean smaller problems stop happening, and it does nobody any good if those are left to fester.

[Rannie]

I'd honestly be fine on him/her refusing on the grounds of him/her not wanting to lose some of his/her dear friends. I mean Hythlodeaus volunteered, they chose Elidibus as the heart and Venat became the heart of Hydaelyn.

[Shookbeast]

Yeah, kinda proving my point there. You want Azem to provide the True Answer, thereby declaring both the Zodiark and Hydaelyn sides to have the Wrong Answer. Which is gonna peeve people off if they agreed with one of those sides, just in the same way that you'd be mad if Azem turned up only to say 'actually Hydaelyn was right all along'.

I don't think we'll ever actually see Azem. But if we ever do, or get an idea of what they were up to, I think they were off doing something entirely different. Maybe fighting some Secret Greater Evil (although I think if done poorly that could cause a similar problem; 'both sides were blind to the real evil'), but I would personally prefer it if it wasn't anything greater, and they were just... off doing the Azem Thing. Just because bigger problems exist, doesn't mean smaller problems stop happening, and it does nobody any good if those are left to fester.

I dunno, it kinda feels like the story so far has condemned both Hydaelyn and the Convocation - so I’m not too sure the writers will be worried about hurting peoples’ feelings. They’ve already pointed out that the Sundering was terrible/wrong, but also the only option ultimately taken… except for the narrative trap-door they gave themselves with Azem.

The problems the Ancients faced are so similar to what the Scions are facing with the moon evacuation - it just feels like we’re seeing the groundwork for some kind of storytelling symmetry here. Azem’s story is so closely tied with Venat at this point - it feels logical that they’d use Azem to tidy up a few plot points.

Mind you - those plot points could be handled in a similar way to how they dodged expectations with the EW Zodiark fight. We could potentially get an Azem storyline where Azem is like: “Yeah. I didn’t like the idea of me or my closest friends getting split apart and memory-wiped - but I also didn’t like seeing all my “new life” friends getting zapped for Zodiark. So instead - I went and helped my friends build a time machine city robot named Alexi The First. Yeah. That’s right. I like grapes and time machines. But then, man o man - we discovered space dragons and it became a whole thing. Like, we had to go to their planet. One of them came here with her son - this cute lil’ guy named Middy. Ultimately I was able to save my friends by putting them in the time machine - but then I got stuck in the Sundering and it was a real bummer. Hey WOL - I’m glad you found a shard of my soul out in the Void and helped restore its memories in this MSQ chapter of the 7.0 Void Expansion.”

The above is a bit tongue in cheek, but it could end up being that we do indeed deal with Azem content - but it takes a sharp turn after just touching upon the Sundering. Maybe it’s just a launching point?

[Alleo]

I am of two minds with Azem. I of course am curious how they were and what they have done but at the same time I am like: Would it matter?

Even if they did search for another way they failed. They failed because history is as we know it is. (I guess one could argue that this would at least prove that these two ways with Zodiark and Hydealyn were the only solutions but even Azem is not all-knowing)

I also doubt that they just casually had a time machine. (Emet was really curious about the time traveling that Graha had done) In my mind Azem probably tried to save as many people from outside Amaurot as they could. No bigger evil, no plan to stop whats coming, just them going around helping as many people as they could.

[Shookbeast]

I am of two minds with Azem. I of course am curious how they were and what they have done but at the same time I am like: Would it matter?
(Snipped for space)

Azem could matter for a few reasons I suppose.

1) Azem (and their shards/pieces) are a clear game mechanic that the writers/designers seem pretty keen on continuing to use. Call them “Chekhov’s Soul Shards” in that they’ve been mentioned, (and we know how many there are) - so it’s likely we’re going to see more of them as the story goes on. It would be a very odd plot-line to abandon - given it relates directly to the player character.

2) Azem relates directly to the player character. There’s been some argument that somehow Azem’s closeness to the player character will mean we won’t see Azem included - because it could conflict with headcanon. This has never stopped the writers before (see almost every major quest where we have to make an important decision - or are simply not allowed to decide). We’ll likely get some dialogue options to help give the illusion of choice - but really Azem is all about the story the writer’s want to tell.

3) Azem is a story device that could be described as an “ace in the hole.” Azem is a character held back, on reserve - until the writers know when/how they’d like to use them. Right now, we can only really speculate what Azem was up to - but the writers have taken time to mention Azem again and again - with the likely intention to someday use Azem when they have a particular story need. As far as what that particular need might be - our clues point toward it having something to do with/during the Sundering - but not necessarily involving either Venat or the Convocation.

4) Azem is the Sundering POV. Our character only exists because Azem got split into 14 pieces. At some point we’ll likely find out how that happened to Azem, what they were doing when it happened, and how they felt about it.

5) Azem is a solution to failure, and possibly a narrative twist. Because we don’t know what Azem was up to - or even who they really were - the writers are in a position to use Azem as a “get out of jail free” card. It’s entirely possible Azem did not fail at whatever they were doing (whether it was monster punching - or searching for an alternative to the Sundering). We may just not know the solution yet - because we haven’t met Azem yet (:

Given the list I made above - I think it’s possible we’ll get a playable/play-alongside Azem storyline, where we run the whole gamut of Final Fantasy questing. We’ll likely beat up Big Bads, visit strange new worlds - and also wander around collecting fire wood for strangers.

As far as time machines go - that was in jest. We all know Urianger is the one secretly from another time (;

[StealthPaladin]

(bla bla bla) ..it might be time to admit you're not onto something.

"That’s just like your opinion, man." -- The Dude

No need for salt.

My opinion is still that we exhibit every sign of tempering. That's what is happening in the opening cutscenes. It just happens to be that instead of placing you on a path to get her more and more aether she commands you to have free will. So is it the SAME as normal tempering, sure no; but only because of how she uses it.

Tempering works just like the echo, only at a smaller scale for smaller primals. That's not a coincidence so your conclusions about the writers is not really warranted. It's also the case that Ascians do constantly suggest you should be skeptical of your drive to support her.

Similarly it explains just why is it that, though you have all these choices, the outcomes send you down a set path. Gradually sending you on a journey to fulfill her singular goal -- the goal in Venat's mind when summoning Hydaelyn

Venat knows that we must answer Meteion's question, as I previously stated, which is:
"I wish to hear your words, share your feelings, know your thoughts"

That is why Hydaelyn's purpose is for you to hear, feel, think.

Her goals are stated.
WoL is most certainly enacting those goals.
We must hear, feel and think through suffering to bring hope and answer Meteion with that hope.

Though how Hydaelyn came about had not been fully decided by writers until recently -- This aspect has been the case in the story as written from the very beginning. We can see in the lyrics from 1.0 in the song "Answers" which really represents Hydaelyn's message that we're being tempered with.

Not to mention our collective "Answers" is exactly what we took with us to Ultima Thule.

Below I add notes to the lyrics linking it pretty strongly with this interpretation
(1/2)

[StealthPaladin]

Ascians:
I close my eyes, tell us why must we suffer
(the suffering Hydaelyn is always on about)
Release your hands, for your will drags us under
(fighting Zodiark)
My legs grow tired, tell us where must we wander
(Ascians constantly reborn into this fight)
How can we carry on if redemption's beyond us?
(desire to return to unsundered)

Hydaelyn:
To all of my children in whom Life flows abundant
(aether keeping the Final Days away)
To all of my children to whom Death hath passed his judgement
(Song of Despair)
The soul yearns for honor, and the flesh the hereafter
(life and death)
Look to those who walked before to lead those who walk after
(world before/after sundering)

Shining is the Land's light of justice
(again aether)
Ever flows the Land's well of purpose
(reasons to live, in the face of despair)
Walk free, walk free, walk free, believe
(desire of Hydaelyn, making the echo a different kind of tempering with freedom)
The Land is alive, so believe
(as other primals, she wants belief)

(chorus of tempering vvv)
Suffer"Feel"
Promise"Think"
Witness"Teach"
Reason"Hear"

Follow"Feel"
Wander"Think"
Stumble"Teach"
Listen"Speak"

Honor"Speak"
Value"Tell"
Whisper"Tell"
Mention"Hope"
Ponder"Hope"
Warrant"Wish"
Cherish"Wish"

Welcome"Roam"
Witness"Roam"
Listen"Roam"
Suffer"Roam"
Sanction"Sleep"
Weather"Sleep"
Wander"Sleep"
Sleep on (souls of ascians)
-----------
Now open your eyes while our plight is repeated
(new character == Azem's soul freshly reincarnated)

Still deaf to our cries, lost in hope we lie defeated
(world of Aumarot)

Our souls have been torn, and our bodies forsaken
Bearing sins of the past, for our future is taken
(sundering)

War born of strife, these trials persuade us not
(conflict with Zodiark's ascians)

Feel what? Learn what?
Words without sound, these lies betray our thoughts (because we're tempered)
Mired by a plague of doubt, the Land, she mourns
(Hydaelyn doesn't know if we'll have to flee with the moon or be able to master Dynamis)

See what? Hear what?
Judgement binds all we hold to a memory of scorn
(Final Days)

Tell us why, given Life, we are meant to die, helpless in our cries?
(hopelessness other civilizations have fallen to)

Witness "Feel"
Suffer "Think"
Borrow "Teach"
Reason "Hear"

Follow "Feel"
Stumble "Think"
Wander "Teach"
Listen "Blink"
Whisper "Blink"
Shoulder "Blink"
Ponder "Blink"
Weather "Hear"

Answer "Look"
Answer "Think"
Answer TOGETHER

Thy Life is a riddle, to bear rapture and sorrow
(YOUR PURPOSE TO STOP FINAL DAYS)
To listen, to suffer, to entrust unto tomorrow
(JOB IS SUFFER + SAVE FUTURE)
In one fleeting moment, from the Land doth life flow
(Final days return, death of Hydaelyn/Zodiark)

Yet in one fleeting moment, for anew it doth grow (song of Hope)
In the same fleeting moment thou must live, die and know

Answers from 1.0
(2/2)

[Cleretic]

"I do not believe we have ever met, yet I sense my magick upon you. Therefore if I wove the enchantment, I could only have done so at a later point in time." - Venat, Heart of Hydaelyn

"What manner of magick is this, if I may ask?" - Hythlodaeus, Local Busybody

"A traveler's ward, of course. It prevents the corruption of one's aether." - Venat, Inventor of the Blessing of Light, on the Blessing of Light

"Does it protect you from enthrallment by primals, by any chance?" - The WoL, Bearer of the Blessing of Light

"...Primals, you say? I'm not familiar with such beings, but if they "enthrall" by warping the balance of aether, then yes--the magick would afford you a measure of protection." Hydaelyn, Speaker of Plain English

The quest is Travelers at the Crossroads, so you can review the records.

And if you needed the additional help...

"This report seeks to provide an overview of the mechanism by which eikons corrupt and bend men to their will. The phenomenon we call "Corruption" refers to the alteration of the aether of the soul. Said aether normally exists in equilibrium; no one element being more prominent than another. But when a subject is exposed to the aether of an eikon, this changes, their soul taking on the properties of the entity in question." - Owen, Allagan Scientist Specializing in Aetheric Corruption, In a Report Heard by the Scions Themselves

We know exactly what the Blessing of Light is, exactly what the Blessing of Light does, and that it protects from exactly the thing that tempering is, from both an academic source and a personally knowledgeable one. Hell, Venat herself saying this is literally the Word of God about this subject.

Your opinion has absolutely no basis in the text of the story we're talking about. It's just straight-up false, I'm sorry.

[Veloran]

We know exactly what the Blessing of Light is, exactly what the Blessing of Light does, and that it protects from exactly the thing that tempering is, from both an academic source and a personally knowledgeable one. Hell, Venat herself saying this is literally the Word of God about this subject.

So how does that explanation account for the Crystals of Light and Ryne/Minfilia's supped-up Oracle powers, both of which are described as the Blessing of Light?

[Cleretic]

So how does that explanation account for the Crystals of Light and Ryne/Minfilia's supped-up Oracle powers, both of which are described as the Blessing of Light?

The Crystals of Light are some sort of amplification of the Blessing; it's not clear exactly how they work, but it's clearly directly connected, as pretty directly pointed out by Y'shtola when Ysayle uses her Crystal.

I think Minfilia and Ryne have both the Blessing of Light and additional powers on top of that; possibly Hydaelyn-provided, possibly unrelated.