Is sage just scholar with a different skin?

[Crossu]

Sorry, let me amend that comment with "in optimized play".

Ah yes, the "optimized play" of spamming Eukrasian Diagnosis to have access to Toxicron and having both of your movement options on 45 sec CD vs having a Ruin II on command without any requirements.
Unless you mean that you are talking optimized to the point of using in during downtime and calculating the exact three uses of toxicron, then yes.

[EaMett]

Ruin II + Energy Drain, so you are still incorrect.

And who's "we". Some SCH players really seem to love using pluralis maiestatis.

We = the general posts and feature requests from the active posters in the healer forums over the past 3 or so years? At the very least the general sentiment.
And Ruin II + ED still isn't optimized, so no.

Ah yes, the "optimized play" of spamming Eukrasian Diagnosis to have access to Toxicron and having both of your movement options on 45 sec CD vs having a Ruin II on command without any requirements.

Never said anything about spamming Eukrasian Diagnosis. Nor did I say anything about actually wasting a gcd for it (since that's what you seem to be insinuating).
And yes, you can literally spam ruin II non-stop. That doesn't mean you should do it.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there's no value or that mobility isn't good on SCH in a variety of scenarios (prog?). I'm just saying it's another skill you want to avoid as much as possible when optimizing (so mobility gets pretty bad comparatively). Unlike SGE's options that already cover all movement requirements you can encounter.

[rewd]

We = the general posts and feature requests from the active posters in the healer forums over the past 3 or so years? At the very least the general sentiment.
And Ruin II + ED still isn't optimized, so no.

It's a good habit to speak for yourself unless you are an official spokesperson. Especially because I'm sure that you are aware of the fact that the forums have an overrepresentation of people that dislike something, simply because "XY has issues" is a far more interesting thread than "XY is perfect, literally no discussion to have here". If you want the illusion of a consensus, "perceived consensus" would be a wiser choice of words.

That being said, Ruin II + ED is certainly optimized, as Broil won't be always enough for movement and that is your next best option.
Besides, your comment was even more incorrect because you said, and I'm quoting you, that "SCH is now a tower healer with no mobility". "Now" implies that SCH was more mobile in ShB, which is objectively wrong as the shorter cast time on Broil added mobility and did not remove it.

[RinaShinomiya]

I mean with the game suffering from the Holy Trinity ( Tank, Healer. DPS , except BLU) what did you expect?

FFXIV jobs are all about Balance so no jobs have a disadvantage over one or the other

and with that they lose their uniqueness and are more homogenized as more jobs are added

if your looking for Job Diversify, this game isn't it sadly, I would suggest giving FFXI a try as all jobs are vastly different from one another e.g Puppet Master can DPS, use their puppet as a tank or have the Puppet heal with Healer attachments, Red Mage can Heal or DPS, Bard is a heavily Support job that can DD if needed, ect

Literally just Healers are this incredibly homogenized.

Ruin II + Energy Drain, so you are still incorrect.

And who's "we". Some SCH players really seem to love using pluralis maiestatis.

Because Broil + ED isn't a thing.

[EaMett]

It's a good habit to speak for yourself unless you are an official spokesperson. Especially because I'm sure that you are aware of the fact that the forums have an overrepresentation of people that dislike something, simply because "XY has issues" is a far more interesting thread than "XY is perfect, literally no discussion to have here". If you want the illusion of a consensus, "perceived consensus" would be a wiser choice of words.

That being said, Ruin II + ED is certainly optimized, as Broil won't be always enough for movement and that is your next best option.
Besides, your comment was even more incorrect because you said, and I'm quoting you, that "SCH is now a tower healer with no mobility". "Now" implies that SCH was more mobile in ShB, which is objectively wrong as the shorter cast time on Broil added mobility and did not remove it.

You're overthinking it. It's one word I used to convey the sentiment I've seen in this forum, and I did so in my reply to a post in this same forum. Seems decently adequate. Plus, the SCH changes people have been wanting to see (mostly in these forums, feel like I need to mention that again), all relate to how healer gameplay has a low ceiling, which limits the scope by default. It's almost "in the title" that I'm not speaking in the name of every sch ever. With that said. I'm really not attached to it, just replace it with "I". That works too.

As far as SCH in ShB. It was more mobile because you had to heal and/or spend your stacks on ED. And that meant either clipping your GCD for a loss or using ruin II + oGCD for the same DPS loss (but gaining mobility). And in fact, the optimized play was to double weave your ruin IIs, always. So you would work towards fitting your heals and other ogcds into your movement windows. Ruin II + ogcd was viable and preferable to Broil + ogcd. So you could freely Ruin II + ED + ogcd for movement and that was optimized. That's no longer the case since Broil + ogcd is better in every way with the new 1.5s casts.

[rewd]

You're overthinking it. It's one word I used to convey the sentiment I've seen in this forum, and I did so in my reply to a post in this same forum. Seems decently adequate. Plus, the SCH changes people have been wanting to see (mostly in these forums, feel like I need to mention that again), all relate to how healer gameplay has a low ceiling, which limits the scope by default. It's almost "in the title" that I'm not speaking in the name of every sch ever. With that said. I'm really not attached to it, just replace it with "I". That works too.

As far as SCH in ShB. It was more mobile because you had to heal and/or spend your stacks on ED. And that meant either clipping your GCD for a loss or using ruin II + oGCD for the same DPS loss (but gaining mobility). And in fact, the optimized play was to double weave your ruin IIs, always. So you would work towards fitting your heals and other ogcds into your movement windows. Ruin II + ogcd was viable and preferable to Broil + ogcd. So you could freely Ruin II + ED + ogcd for movement and that was optimized. That's no longer the case since Broil + ogcd is better in every way with the new 1.5s casts.

What you are saying is that SCH had no mobility available on demand that wasn't a DPS loss or suboptimal, as your option were a Biolysis refresh (which was always every 30s) and a Ruin II + ED + fairy heal (or something like Ruin II + ED + Recitation and Ruin II + ED + Indomitability) which means that your movement was dictated by healing (if you want to be optimal).

Now your Ruin II + ED windows can be used purely for movement (when a Broil wouldn't suffice) and you don't have to feel like you should weave a heal there to be optimal in order not to waste a precious window to weave.

So I'm really, really curious to learn how ShB SCH was more mobile, especially after EW SCH what mode AST the objectively more mobile healer of the bunch.

[WaxSw]

What you are saying is that SCH had no mobility available on demand that wasn't a DPS loss or suboptimal, as your option were a Biolysis refresh (which was always every 30s) and a Ruin II + ED + fairy heal (or something like Ruin II + ED + Recitation and Ruin II + ED + Indomitability) which means that your movement was dictated by healing (if you want to be optimal).

Now your Ruin II + ED windows can be used purely for movement (when a Broil wouldn't suffice) and you don't have to feel like you should weave a heal there to be optimal in order not to waste a precious window to weave.

So I'm really, really curious to learn how ShB SCH was more mobile, especially after EW SCH what mode AST the objectively more mobile healer of the bunch.

Ruin 2 the moment you can weave with broil becomes a dps loss no matter if you weave ED or not, Wtf are you saying?

If you need to heal just weave the heal, if you need to move you move if you need to weave a heal and move you swift and if for some reason you need to move, heal and swift is on cd either you plan the healing so that doesnt happen or if anything else fails you then use ruin 2, a skill that is literally the last resort is not "optimal"

Edit: and about how Shb was more mobile is simple Shb Sch coudnt weave with broil, they didn't have a better alternative to use ED than using it with Ruin 2 Swift it or time it with biolysis (which is kinda where one of the niches of complexity of Sch resided, how you weaved, now lost like anything remotely interesting in healer gameplay of course), this means that using Ruin 2 + ED was not a loss vs anything and as such Shb Sch could use Ruin 2 and being less penalized than current Sch

[Halfgeeek]

SGE does have more personal movement, with ability to pre-store 3 Addersting at the start of the fight and during transitions.

But SCH has the ultimate team movement tool. <3

[RinaShinomiya]

To put the movement issues into perspective.
WHM using lilies for movement is a 85 potency loss. It used to be 75 potency in SHB but w/e. It was also a weaving tool so you wouldn't clip Assize or Quickcast or PoM or w/e (you get the gist) so overall those 75 potency lost felt lesser than they actually were. Which is why now more than ever Lilies need a potency buff.
SCH using Ruin II for movement is a 75 potency loss. It used to be 90 potency in SHB but Ruin II being the only weaving window (outside of Biolosys) meant that Ruin II + ED was actually a 10 potency gain (200+100 vs 290). That is no longer the case since you can weave whenever. Doesn't matter when you ED as long as you use it before Aetherflow comes offcooldown. So yeah Ruin II right now feels a little outdated for optimized play, it's great for prog though and a ease of use luxury no other healer has.
AST technically has Lightspeed but if you're serious about AST gameplay you know that it's best to save it for the 2 minute burst windows rather than movement due to the amount of weaving AST needs to perform.
Then we have SGE who not only has a gapcloser (which allowed me to ignore positioning on several occasions since i just dash to people who're already in the right spot, it also has Phlegma which, yes is melee range but its been stated several times before that you rarely wanna be out of melee range anyway since that makes dodging mechanics and healing the entire party easier. Phlegma is also DPS positive, we actually gain like 180 potency and don't suffer any penalties from movement. If Phlegma nor Icarus works we have Toxicon which is DPS neutral if you know when to fish for it and spend it wisely. Meaning that we now have 3 healers who would prefer to slidecast and 1 healer who can slidecast and run around without DPS penalty (If played well). This is well balanced indeed.

[Seraphor]

If you don't just get caught up with the end effects of skills, and certain potencies and durations etc, but actually take into consideration the execution of skills and the contextual differences in how you use those skills, not at all.
I can't play SCH to (literally) save my life, but SGE fits me like a glove.