6.0 Summoner: Thoughts on an Unsuccessful Rework After 1 Month of Gameplay

[Katie_Kitty]

I find it funny that for such a "successful and most popular class", complaint threads about SMN keep popping one after the other.

Huh, go figure.

It's almost as if there's a vocal minority of players who are unhappy with it.

Ask any random summoner in-game and they will tell you new summoner is a true summoner and a huge improvement over the WoW class it used to be.

[Lilyth]

Ask any random summoner in-game and they will tell you new summoner is a true summoner and a huge improvement over the WoW class it used to be.

You'd be surprised.

[MyakotApelsia]

It's almost as if there's a vocal minority of players who are unhappy with it.

Ask any random summoner in-game and they will tell you new summoner is a true summoner and a huge improvement over the WoW class it used to be.

Unsurprising

After all, people that dont like it anymore will move to better designed jobs, like blm or rdm /shrug.

Also, omegalul at "true summoner"

[OtakuSempai]

Unsurprising

After all, people that dont like it anymore will move to better designed jobs, like blm or rdm /shrug.

Also, omegalul at "true summoner"

*gasp* Do I see someone who actually understands what survivorship bias is in this thread?

[tearagion]

It's almost as if there's a vocal minority of players who are unhappy with it.

Ask any random summoner in-game and they will tell you new summoner is a true summoner and a huge improvement over the WoW class it used to be.

In an amazing reversal of expectations, people who are unhappy with how summoner plays won't be playing summoner in game

[Anvaire]

It's almost as if there's a vocal minority of players who are unhappy with it.

Ask any random summoner in-game and they will tell you new summoner is a true summoner and a huge improvement over the WoW class it used to be.

There are two lenses you can look at the rework through.

A - Class identity and philosophy. Old summoner was more of an evoker, new summoner is more of a summoner. The Evoker calls the essence of the primal, the summoner summon the primal. In this regard the Rework hits the mark. It summons more things and uses those summons to temper its arsenal of spells to the summons elements. There is nothing wrong with that.

B - Class Mechanics and rotation. - Overall I would say the base mechanics of the reworks is fine in theory, but in practice it needs more work. That isnt to say scrunch it up and throw it away. Majority of the rotation is fine, but its a little stale. All the devs need to do is mitigate the inherant problems with the rotation clunkiness and add divergence and optimisation and complication to the Summons Rotations. The issue is there is nothing to build, nothing to track and therefore the job feels stale.

Its not a whole rejection of the rework that most people want, in actuality it is just a small adjustment. When people are saying it is too simple, they dont mean that the devs should scrunch it up throw it over their shoulder and start again, they just want adjustments and refinments on the job as a whole to make it more engaging.

Chucking all the feedback as a "vocal minority" isn't helpful, nor is the resolving door of "but it feels like a real summoner now." What is needed is meaningful discussion around the issues the class faces and what the solutions can be. Whether summoner is a "real summoner" or not is wholly and entirely based on perception. I do think it certainly leans more towards the summoning fantasy that most think summoner should have had on inception. I dont think many have an issue with this. Instead the issue lies in the mechanics of the class. Slight adjustments to the summons roational mechanics is probably all that is being asked for. That and some extra GCD's.

For example if we look at bahamut, one easy change would be to turn ankh morn into2 casts again and instead cut the potency in half. Tie WW's to GCD's again so it becomes a case of optimisation to get 6 ww's from 6 GCD's while fitting in 2 Akhn more, Energy drain, fester and Deathflare without delaying or losing ww's.

Overall its a small change that would give a sense of achievement from completing. Yes it means choices will need to be made to ensure Bahamut is used effectively, but it will reward players for this.

I think this is what most people who are unhappy are asking for. Inevitably there are some who will hate the rework because they loved its previous version. To them, i do understand their upset and frustration. This is always a risk when you rework a job, that inevitably some will be left behind. Either way though the issue is far removed from the question of is it a real summoner?

At the end of the day, no one has to agree with anyone else's opinion, but that doesnt mean we should reject it outright or hand wave it away as a "vocal minority" Nor should we direct ire at the devs who honestly would have done their best to rework the class and likely hoped it was an astounding success. Missteps happen, but what matters is how we react to them. Summoner isnt perfect, true, but it is not completely broken either. It just needs some tweaking and adjustments and it will be a solid class, that is fun and rewarding.

[Raikai]

There are two lenses you can look at the rework through.

A - Class identity and philosophy. Old summoner was more of an evoker, new summoner is more of a summoner. The Evoker calls the essence of the primal, the summoner summon the primal. In this regard the Rework hits the mark. It summons more things and uses those summons to temper its arsenal of spells to the summons elements. There is nothing wrong with that.

B - Class Mechanics and rotation. - Overall I would say the base mechanics of the reworks is fine in theory, but in practice it needs more work. That isnt to say scrunch it up and throw it away. Majority of the rotation is fine, but its a little stale. All the devs need to do is mitigate the inherant problems with the rotation clunkiness and add divergence and optimisation and complication to the Summons Rotations. The issue is there is nothing to build, nothing to track and therefore the job feels stale.

A versus B is exactly what is happening at the moment with Machinist. The job now feels like a true machinist/gadgeteer, however the actual functionality is bland. Why the 3 main tools are nearly clones of each other? Why Overheat is just a 1 button spam instead of a combo? Why Automaton Queen is nothing but a glorified dot? None of these questions have to do directly with Class identity... It could've been the same if MCH remained as a "gunner with sprinkles of gadget" HW and SB.

[Shurrikhan]

It's almost as if there's a vocal minority of players who are unhappy with it.

Ask any random summoner in-game and they will tell you new summoner is a true summoner and a huge improvement over the WoW class it used to be.

Summoner never played any more alike to a Warlock, Affliction spec or otherwise, than did a BLM -- which is to say, not to any significant degree beyond "They casted, they maintained DoT(s), and they could trigger at least one effect from or upon said DoT(s)."

In-game, the most common response I get to questions on SMN's new gameplay falls along the likes of "It's fine, I guess?" closely followed by "You mean the new hypermobile Earth, Wind, and Fire Mage with an animate emotional support plushie?"

[zcrash970]

Summoner never played any more alike to a Warlock, Affliction spec or otherwise, than did a BLM -- which is to say, not to any significant degree beyond "They casted, they maintained DoT(s), and they could trigger at least one effect from or upon said DoT(s)."

In-game, the most common response I get to questions on SMN's new gameplay falls along the likes of "It's fine, I guess?" closely followed by "You mean the new hypermobile Earth, Wind, and Fire Mage with an animate emotional support plushie?"

Didn't you know having a pet and dots immediately makes it a warlock copy