Action changes to:

[Experiment_X4d2]

A decent few classes have actions that automatically change into another after use, or a specific situation is fulfilled; and i love them.
But as I play other jobs, it makes me wonder why other actions aren't done like this as well... several buttons exist that cannot be used unless in a specific situation, such as after the use of another action or during a certain buff.
Some of these buttons have actually become replacement keys themself (Such as Phantom Kamaitachi for NIN during Bunshin) and it's lovely, another free space on my bars!

So... can we do it for some more please? Some of them are probably less needed than others, but there are abilities that I literally can't use both at the same time, or doing so would be ludicrous to consider; but here's to name some of my biggest gripes:

• Mirage Dive - Only usable after [High] Jump - 15s buff window for a 30s CD ability, I literally can't have both up together.
• Redraw - Only usable after Draw - I'm never going to just Draw another card while I still have one, I'm either going to Play it or Redraw it then play it.
• Crown Play - Only usable after Minor Arcana - Same as above, I'm never going to just sit on a Crown Card for 60s to be able to Minor Arcana again, I'll use the card in that time.

Other jobs were originally in this gripe list as well, that have since been sorted. GNB's Cartridge Combo, NIN's Phantom, SCH's Consolation. So it can be done! I just hope it gets done more.

Maybe it's just me, but for Jobs that already have button bloat, more replacement buttons are appreciated

[NegativeS]

GNB used to be the absolute worst with button bloat, because it had a combo that spanned *8 spells.*

Keen Edge -> Brutal Shell -> Solid Barrel -> No Mercy -> Gnashing Fang -> Jugular Rip -> Savage Claw -> Abdomen Tear -> Wicked Talon -> Eye Gouge

The spells in bold above were under 'Continuation,' meaning that there was a dedicated button that would turn into those spells when it was their turn in the combo.

This did, however, mean that the combo still took up 8 slots, which is almost an entire bar.

Now though, it's more like this:

Keen Edge -> Brutal Shell -> Solid Barrel -> No Mercy -> Gnashing Fang -> Jugular Rip -> Savage Claw -> Abdomen Tear -> Wicked Talon -> Eye Gouge -> Double Down

Now the buttons in bold fold under Gnashing Fang, reducing the combo to 7 spells even though we got a new spell on the end of the combo (and technically, a new combo...)
I feel like I shouldn't be having this much technical problem with something like gunbreaker.

Nevertheless, I'm happy that they did it, though I wish they just gave us the freedom to do so ourselves.

[Shibi]

We discussed it in another thread 2 days back, or so.

It boiled down to "It would be nice to fold the spells and reclaim my hotbar" vs "it removes all the skill in the game".

[Rongway]

We discussed it in another thread 2 days back, or so.

It boiled down to "It would be nice to fold the spells and reclaim my hotbar" vs "it removes all the skill in the game".

There is a big difference between consolidating combos and consolidating actions with mutually exclusive actions. Philosophical debates can be had about consolidating combos and it's fine for people to disagree on that part. But there is no good reason for two buttons with a related purpose to take up two slots if they can never possibly be used under the same conditions.

GNB's Continuation combo, for example, was a fair candidate for consolidation because the three steps can never be used out of order and so there was no penalty to pressing them out of order, so why even make them take up three slots. C.f. GNB's normal combo, which, even though nobody would intend to perform it out of order, it can be done and it would be a DPS loss.

The Draw/Redraw or Draw/Play and MinorArcana/CrownPlay pairs don't fall into the category of mutually exclusive action pairs because they're not strictly impossible to activate at the wrong time but in spirit they should be adaptive buttons.

[GrimGale]

There is a big difference between consolidating combos and consolidating actions with mutually exclusive actions. Philosophical debates can be had about consolidating combos and it's fine for people to disagree on that part. But there is no good reason for two buttons with a related purpose to take up two slots if they can never possibly be used under the same conditions.

GNB's Continuation combo, for example, was a fair candidate for consolidation because the three steps can never be used out of order and so there was no penalty to pressing them out of order, so why even make them take up three slots. C.f. GNB's normal combo, which, even though nobody would intend to perform it out of order, it can be done and it would be a DPS loss.

The Draw/Redraw or Draw/Play and MinorArcana/CrownPlay pairs don't fall into the category of mutually exclusive action pairs because they're not strictly impossible to activate at the wrong time but in spirit they should be adaptive buttons.

There is no good reason for RDM's Enchanted combo to occupy 3 slots. It's 1-2-3 without variation.

[Rongway]

There is no good reason for RDM's Enchanted combo to occupy 3 slots. It's 1-2-3 without variation.

That's a different discussion. It's a failure point. You can activate the buttons out of order and you can still get mana stacks from doing so. You can even (wrongly) mix single target weaponskills with Moulinet and still complete a "combo" that you can follow with a Verfinisher combo. But we're not talking about that here. We're talking about mutually exclusive actions. You can never Between the Lines unless Leylines is active; and you can never activate Leylines at any time that you would be able to Between the Lines; so they should not be two different buttons. [High] Jump's cooldown is longer than the window in which Mirage Dive is usable, and Mirage Dive cannot be used unless you have used [High] Jump; they should be a single button.

[Shibi]

There is a big difference between consolidating combos and consolidating actions with mutually exclusive actions. Philosophical debates can be had about consolidating combos and it's fine for people to disagree on that part. But there is no good reason for two buttons with a related purpose to take up two slots if they can never possibly be used under the same conditions.

GNB's Continuation combo, for example, was a fair candidate for consolidation because the three steps can never be used out of order and so there was no penalty to pressing them out of order, so why even make them take up three slots. C.f. GNB's normal combo, which, even though nobody would intend to perform it out of order, it can be done and it would be a DPS loss.

The Draw/Redraw or Draw/Play and MinorArcana/CrownPlay pairs don't fall into the category of mutually exclusive action pairs because they're not strictly impossible to activate at the wrong time but in spirit they should be adaptive buttons.

Absolutely no argument from me. I fall into the "collapse more of the bloat" side. But then I am trying to train someone disabled to be a GNB and it's not easy.

Yes, there was another thread about 3 weeks ago in regards to how to do it for people with disabilities, but I am not taking that path. I will keep trying to hammer home, press 1, now 2, now 3, now 1, now 2, now 3, now 4, now 5, now 6, now 7, and so on.

[icrot]

I have macros for situations like this.

I know people here aren't a big fan of them but they make my life easier.

[KuroMaboroshi]

• Mirage Dive - Only usable after [High] Jump - 15s buff window for a 30s CD ability, I literally can't have both up together.

While I can't comment on the other two, this one I'd personally hate. The way I have organised my hotbar has me strictly separate my abilities that involve movement from my abilities that don't, to ensure I don't fatfinger any of them by accident. As such, having High Jump turn into Mirage Dive would be extremely annoying.

[IdowhatIwant]

Absolutely no argument from me. I fall into the "collapse more of the bloat" side. But then I am trying to train someone disabled to be a GNB and it's not easy.

Yes, there was another thread about 3 weeks ago in regards to how to do it for people with disabilities, but I am not taking that path. I will keep trying to hammer home, press 1, now 2, now 3, now 1, now 2, now 3, now 4, now 5, now 6, now 7, and so on.

Problem is people think button bloat = higher skill ceiling.