Has the WoW crowd taken over now?

[Xaruko_Nexume]

Bold of you to say that the game would be better without Savage. I remember back when the first Ultimate landed, and the content creator engagement for FFXIV content was the most active it had been since the launch of the game. I also remember back when Coil was the only difficulty. Savage exists so that the story can be put in normal mode, allowing casual engagement.

I'd avoid saying absolutes like that. It would be better *for you* maybe, but definitely not for the game as a whole.

I would argue savage is little more than an after thought to keep the sweaty ones busy. Yoshi P personally wants a hardcore, difficult engaging game, but has admitted he knows his audience doesnt want that. They know who their audience is.

Queue times were definitely more through the roof when new MSQ story released then when savage released. But honestly, thats an equally poor measure of the games health as much as content creator engagement is. And yes, I would definitely prefer, and believe the game would be better suited for more casual content. Emotes, RP settings, glam, more relic grind style quests, even more story and out of combat things to do.

I think the most generous estimate I was able to find a few weeks ago for the typical savage completion rate for a current tier was around 25%. Honestly, I think that is pretty unlikely itself, or skewed somehow that it would even be nearly that high. Why waste so many resources on something the minority even participates in?

[DubiousDisk]

I've noticed that the forums tends to blame WoW for a lot of things that have existed for a while.

[SargentToughie]

I would argue savage is little more than an after thought to keep the sweaty ones busy. Yoshi P personally wants a hardcore, difficult engaging game, but has admitted he knows his audience doesnt want that. They know who their audience is.

Queue times were definitely more through the roof when new MSQ story released then when savage released. But honestly, thats an equally poor measure of the games health as much as content creator engagement is. And yes, I would definitely prefer, and believe the game would be better suited for more casual content. Emotes, RP settings, glam, more relic grind style quests, even more story and out of combat things to do.

I think the most generous estimate I was able to find a few weeks ago for the typical savage completion rate for a current tier was around 25%. Honestly, I think that is pretty unlikely itself, or skewed somehow that it would even be nearly that high. Why waste so many resources on something the minority even participates in?

So I'm a "sweaty one" now? I'm trying to have a legitimate conversation, but you keep speaking about me and my entire FFXIV social group with really derisive terms. I'm putting a lot of effort into being polite here. I don't feel that effort is being reciprocated.

The hardest content will obviously have less people that engage with it than casual content. Candy Crush has more players than Dark Souls does, so I guess Dark Souls doesn't deserve to exist?

If Savage/Ultimates goes away, what happens to the crafter treadmill? If there's no need to craft high quality, top end gear, there's no need to spend months gathering top end materials, making HQ crafter gear, spending millions upon millions of gil pentamelding it, and then spending thousands of tomestones from daily roulettes (trickling back into the more casual content) building the higher ilvl crafted gear.

And even on a lower level than Savage/Ultimate, there are EX primals that a *MUCH* larger bulk of the player base engages in.

Again, you can choose not to engage in a piece of content and that's totally fine, but please avoid such broad and dismissive strokes as saying that a game is "better" without it. There's a reason FFXIV is more popular than Second Life.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

EDIT: Also, I don't appreciate the soft implication that I'm not a customer that deserves to be catered to. How is my sub money worth any less than yours?

It's not a matter of anyone "deserving" anything. It's about what I believe, would make the game even more successful, which is focusing time and financial resources to basically anything besides difficult content. What the game does best. If someone wants a game with emphasis on hardcore raiding with a competitive environment, there is a lot better out there for that. You, and others are free and likely obviously disagree with my assessment and that is fine and to be expected.

I'm sorry you seem to take it personally that I believe the game would be better with little to none of the favorite content that you personally enjoy, but I do believe it. The devs know it too. You can see it on the constant complaints of "This game just gets easier and easier!" and "Will we ever get harder dungeons again?" No, you probably won't.

Edit:

So I'm a "sweaty one" now? I'm trying to have a legitimate conversation, but you keep speaking about me and my entire FFXIV social group with really derisive terms. I'm putting a lot of effort into being polite here. I don't feel that effort is being reciprocated.

The hardest content will obviously have less people that engage with it than casual content. Candy Crush has more players than Dark Souls does, so I guess Dark Souls doesn't deserve to exist?

If Savage/Ultimates goes away, what happens to the crafter treadmill? If there's no need to craft high quality, top end gear, there's no need to spend months gathering top end materials, making HQ crafter gear, spending millions upon millions of gil pentamelding it, and then spending thousands of tomestones from daily roulettes (trickling back into the more casual content) building the higher ilvl crafted gear.

And even on a lower level than Savage/Ultimate, there are EX primals that a *MUCH* larger bulk of the player base engages in.

Again, you can choose not to engage in a piece of content and that's totally fine, but please avoid such broad and dismissive strokes as saying that a game is "better" without it. There's a reason FFXIV is more popular than Second Life.

Well, yes. I consider savage raiding sweaty, but not the sweatiest of content out there of course.

Candy Crush and Dark Souls are two separate games. They bother cater to a very different and specific market from one another, and they both do it well. I am not arguing difficult games can't or should not exist. I am only arguing that this game, would likely see more success and would be improved, by not catering and indeed not even creating content on the difficulty level of savage or beyond.

Regarding the "crafting treadmill", I was under the impression crafting was an alternative to end game PvE rewards, not to prepare for them necessarily. Is it not? I have only been playing 7 months and the only crafting I have done is a little bit of fishing, so please forgive my ignorance on that topic. That said, I personally know plenty of people who love crafting solely for the glamour and just craft the highest item level they can, and call it a day, never setting foot in savage, and they are quite satisfied with that.

As far as the reason this game is more popular than second life, there are a million reasons I can think of, and raiding isn't among them.

Im sorry you seem to keep taking things personally. It isn't personal, and doesn't really even have anything to do with you specifically, but since you seem to keep implying that you believe it is, and that I am somehow being impolite, I think this will be my last comment on the matter.

[SargentToughie]

It's not a matter of anyone "deserving" anything. It's about what I believe, would make the game even more successful, which is focusing time and financial resources to basically anything besides difficult content. What the game does best. If someone wants a game with emphasis on hardcore raiding with a competitive environment, there is a lot better out there for that. You, and others are free and likely obviously disagree with my assessment and that is fine and to be expected.

I'm sorry you seem to take it personally that I believe the game would be better with little to none of the favorite content that you personally enjoy, but I do believe it. The devs know it too. You can see it on the constant complaints of "This game just gets easier and easier!" and "Will we ever get harder dungeons again?" No, you probably won't.

I can look at this OF and find at least half a dozen posts within 5 minutes complaining about how hard the final trial is, lmao

[Xaruko_Nexume]

I can look at this OF and find at least half a dozen posts within 5 minutes complaining about how hard the final trial is, lmao

sigh I know I said I was done...but do you think that strengthens your argument? That there is complaining...about what? Hard content...So lets add more of the very thing people complained about. That worked well for another game.

[SargentToughie]

sigh I know I said I was done...but do you think that strengthens your argument? That there is complaining...about what? Hard content...So lets add more of the very thing people complained about. That worked well for another game.

So wait. When people are complaining about a lack of hard content, that just means that a game's current trend is going against it, which is good according to you. But when people are complaining that a trial is too hard, that's criticism that the company should act upon? Pick a side, already! Is complaining good, or is it bad?

Either way, you were right that this conversation is a waste of time for the both of us. Have a nice life, where ever it takes you!

[Titivillus]

If you look at the FFXIV kick requirements, you can report a group for kicking you the reasons you listed.

[MilkieTea]

sigh I know I said I was done...but do you think that strengthens your argument? That there is complaining...about what? Hard content...So lets add more of the very thing people complained about. That worked well for another game.

You've had some pretty crummy takes but this one takes the cake lmao.

[Batbrat]

If you look at the FFXIV kick requirements, you can report a group for kicking you the reasons you listed.

Or you could also just not join a group if you have no idea what you're doing, since that would be griefing and annoying
Not sure what self righteous hill "I deserve to be in all parties regardless of my skill level or knowledge" is or why all the sudden people are jumping on it