Stowaways in High-End Content?

[Stepjam]

I dunno if the game could really keep track of prog checkpoints in a fight.

[AriesDaBeeh]

I dunno if the game could really keep track of prog checkpoints in a fight.

I would like to suggest maybe a % track on individual progress. Or perhaps having more fights into checkpoints like doorbosses on the last savage fights you could have a option to set it to people who have made it to that checkpoint.
Perhaps if duty complete is checked by the achievement have a "Half way there" achievement you get for wiping past 50% or higher.

Its scrappy.. Its slapdash but its honestly better then what we have going here. Not everyone has statics or a group of friends to consistently work with. Square is out of touch if they think everyone does. And with third party illegal software like ACT running the scene on most statics, finding such groups is harder then it should be.

[Seera1024]

I would like to suggest maybe a % track on individual progress. Or perhaps having more fights into checkpoints like doorbosses on the last savage fights you could have a option to set it to people who have made it to that checkpoint.
Perhaps if duty complete is checked by the achievement have a "Half way there" achievement you get for wiping past 50% or higher.

Its scrappy.. Its slapdash but its honestly better then what we have going here. Not everyone has statics or a group of friends to consistently work with. Square is out of touch if they think everyone does. And with third party illegal software like ACT running the scene on most statics, finding such groups is harder then it should be.

All someone has to do is get carried to that magic percentage and they get past your system.

There's no system that will get rid of stowaways and it lets players through who guessed the mechanic right and therefore didn't really learn the mechanic as they didn't have to figure it out due to failure.

The current system is just fine like it is.

[AriesDaBeeh]

All someone has to do is get carried to that magic percentage and they get past your system.

There's no system that will get rid of stowaways and it lets players through who guessed the mechanic right and therefore didn't really learn the mechanic as they didn't have to figure it out due to failure.

The current system is just fine like it is.

My solution isn't perfect I know that but that doesn't mean that doing nothing is the better choice either. Some step in the right direction is better then none.

[Vidu]

I would like to suggest maybe a % track on individual progress. Or perhaps having more fights into checkpoints like doorbosses on the last savage fights you could have a option to set it to people who have made it to that checkpoint.
Perhaps if duty complete is checked by the achievement have a "Half way there" achievement you get for wiping past 50% or higher.

And would that be tracked per job? Or at least per role? Because I can assure you that just because someone reached a certain point in a fight (or even cleared it) as a tank they dont necessarly know how to heal it. Or how to play a DPS well enough to bring the needed damage to the fight. Or how to deal with mechanics that are role-specific. I could enter a farm group for the Second Ex-Primal right now with my scholar and people would be rightfully wondering if thats my first time doing that trial at all - despite me having cleared it multiple times with my paladin. Your system would still allow me to enter.

Its scrappy.. Its slapdash but its honestly better then what we have going here. Not everyone has statics or a group of friends to consistently work with. Square is out of touch if they think everyone does. And with third party illegal software like ACT running the scene on most statics, finding such groups is harder then it should be.

Right, not everyone has a group of friends or a static - but everyone can build or find one. Befriend those people from failed farm/clear groups who showed potential (both in regards to the fight and in regards to being nice enough people). Invite them to linkshells and/or a Discord server for that purpose. Or ask if anyone already has such a linkshell/discord server you could join.

In regards to ACT... in my personal experience its not as present and excluding as some people portrait it - but again: personal experience, anecdotes, etc.
I am a little surprised though that you bring it up as a negative point - seeing how you would like to introduce more ingame-gatekeeping to get rid of "stowaways"... doesnt ACT (and people using it) do essentially the same? Knowing the mechanics and/or the fight up to a certain point is all fine and dandy, but if you hit enrage at 30% because half the people know how to dodge, but not how to deal damage you wont clear the content either.

[AriesDaBeeh]

In regards to ACT... in my personal experience its not as present and excluding as some people portrait it - but again: personal experience, anecdotes, etc.
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I don't know maybe your parse is better then mine but I have tried and failed on literally every attempt to even join new static parties because they are all looking for act. I've never had a problem with parser stuff in theory but ACT specifically is a very flawed program that is being over relied on and used in ways that aren't actually representative of anything people are looking for. It has grown rampant in this community and it shouldn't not just out of principle but out of all the flaws it has to not be relied on.

You say I could make a party but if one has problems joining any statics because of act what is the likelihood anyone would stay or respect a party you made either. People in this community use act almost as a social credit system, defining your quality as a person and a player and often just the percentage. Not 'if' you cleared or how much you did, but how well you did even if most people now are probably spending hours a day over-killing their bosses in parse parties to climb in % and dilute it for everyone else who didn't.

Biggest problem with act is that it doesn't bracket players when considering parse %.. based on ilvl I know wow at least does with its act.. That means someone who enters savage late, even if they did their job perfectly and with perfect uptime will get a stunted parse when the pool for their class is full of full bis savage geared players who have been pumping the same boss every day for the last month. That new player who just got their clear will never have a % as good as the bis players even if they performed exactly the same.

[LittleImp]

I don't know maybe your parse is better then mine but I have tried and failed on literally every attempt to even join new static parties because they are all looking for act. I've never had a problem with parser stuff in theory but ACT specifically is a very flawed program that is being over relied on and used in ways that aren't actually representative of anything people are looking for. It has grown rampant in this community and it shouldn't not just out of principle but out of all the flaws it has to not be relied on.

Most people that are recruiting based on logs aren't just looking at your damage. It's definitely part of the equation, but logs give a lot of additional insight around things like mitigation usage, positioning, consistency, etc. If you want, I could review some of your logs and try to figure out why you may be getting denied frequently.

People in this community use act almost as a social credit system, defining your quality as a person and a player and often just the percentage. Not 'if' you cleared or how much you did, but how well you did even if most people now are probably spending hours a day over-killing their bosses in parse parties to climb in % and dilute it for everyone else who didn't.

You're not wrong. Players put too much esteem in parse % in this game. There are a lot of absolutely terrible players out there that grind for 99's, but the day new content drops will absolutely trap and obstruct every party they join.

[Azuri]

snip

Sigh. Why is it always the same? Just a cursory glance at the data provided by that "very flawed program" has shown me that:

- you often break combo.
- you often weave as many as six abilities between two GCDs. The maximum amount you should be doing is two, btw.
- you are not using your offensive cooldowns as soon as they are available and are losing quite a bit of uses.
- you are using your personal and group mitigation abilities very infrequently and let them sit unused for most of the fight (two TBN uses over an entire fight level of bad, btw).
- you are very rarely landing five GCDs in Blood Weapon. Sometimes even doing as little as three.
- your general GCD uptime is around 80-85%. Which means that you are simply doing nothing for about 1/5th of the fight.

I'm sorry, but your parses aren't grey because of "act being flawed" or bad gear. They are entirely the result of your poor play and simply not pressing buttons. And even if we were to ignore the damage part, your tanking is very far from stellar as well. I'm not surprised that a static leader would refuse you. For someone who wants to get rid of "stowaways" in high-end content you have definitely been skipping on that humble pie.

[AriesDaBeeh]

Sigh. Why is it always the same? Just a cursory glance at the data provided by that "very flawed program" has shown me that:

- you often break combo.
- you often weave as many as six abilities between two GCDs. The maximum amount you should be doing is two, btw.
- you are not using your offensive cooldowns as soon as they are available and are losing quite a bit of uses.
- you are using your personal and group mitigation abilities very infrequently and let them sit unused for most of the fight (two TBN uses over an entire fight level of bad, btw).
- you are very rarely landing five GCDs in Blood Weapon. Sometimes even doing as little as three.
- your general GCD uptime is around 80-85%. Which means that you are simply doing nothing for about 1/5th of the fight.

I'm sorry, but your parses aren't grey because of "act being flawed" or bad gear. They are entirely the result of your poor play and simply not pressing buttons. And even if we were to ignore the damage part, your tanking is very far from stellar as well. I'm not surprised that a static leader would refuse you. For someone who wants to get rid of "stowaways" in high-end content you have definitely been skipping on that humble pie.

You still can't deny that doesn't consider gear shouldn't be used as the end all be all for someones grade. Even if you did do things perfectly your result would sill be stunted by someone who also did everything AND had fortune of a fully gear set.
and as I said to Vidu. This isn't a game that built around absolute perfection in class performance it helps but if it was as necessary as mechanical performance things like act or cactbot would be allowed. don't believe me? see how my % was as a healer in the last expansion's savages. Still cleared most of them. The difference of a clear and pass then wasn't me improving as much as it was people, including me, not screwing up the mechanics. Y'know, the thing yoship actually intends for people to prioritize first.
The subject of this thread was talking about people entering parties not knowing how mechanics work, not under peforming in their class. I have personally rarely seen a party that can actually get through the fight without messing up that doesn't also clear. Maybe people should wait until they actually get to the damage check enrage before chanting about up-time and efficiency. Maybe if people weren't so caught up in third party social credit score people could actually focus on where they are standing? the thing that actually matters.

[LittleImp]

You still can't deny that doesn't consider gear shouldn't be used as the end all be all for someones grade. Even if you did do things perfectly your result would sill be stunted by someone who also did everything AND had fortune of a fully gear set.

You can hit the upper 25% in crafted gear, sometimes even fairly late into the tier. A moderately skilled player shouldn't have too much trouble hitting at least 50%, regardless of gear. I have never seen a fight where being geared and playing well would land you in the lower 10%, ever.

and as I said to Vidu. This isn't a game that built around absolute perfection in class performance it helps but if it was as necessary as mechanical performance things like act or cactbot would be allowed. don't believe me? see how my % was as a healer in the last expansion's savages. Still cleared most of them. The difference of a clear and pass then wasn't me improving as much as it was people, including me, not screwing up the mechanics.

You cleared many, many months after the tier launched, probably while overgeared. Raiding right now isn't just about "not screwing up mechanics". The DPS check in the P4S doorboss is 48.3k, recruiting anyone that you aren't confident can contribute their fair share to meet that check is absolutely foolish. Not to mention, it's not that hard to find someone that can play their job AND do mechanics.

The subject of this thread was talking about people entering parties not knowing how mechanics work, not under peforming in their class. I have personally rarely seen a party that can actually get through the fight without messing up that doesn't also clear. Maybe people should wait until they actually get to the damage check enrage before chanting about up-time and efficiency. Maybe if people weren't so caught up in third party social credit score people could actually focus on where they are standing? the thing that actually matters.

It isn't fair to criticize others for trapping you when you're playing at a level that effectively REQUIRES other people to overperform to clear the fight with you, be it in healing or damage.
You absolutely will not be able to pass something like the P4S door-boss at your current level of play without significant gearing. It doesn't matter how well you are pressing WASD for easy mechanics if you aren't contributing a fair share of damage / mitigation; Low damage is usually a sign of someone who is having to spend too much of their focus executing mechanics anyway, so I have significant doubts about your supposed consistency. EDIT: Yeah, you take vulns from avoidable mechanics in 4/4 of your EX1 kills, and 8/10 of your EX2 kills. You're not being honest with yourself, or anyone here.