Buff DNC damage pls (sad dnc main)

[Risvertasashi]

Nah, DNC definitely needs some sort of potency buff. BRD is roughly 8% ahead of it right now, and it doesn’t give nearly enough rDPS to warrant being so low. It didn’t in ShB either.

In ShB, DNC wasn’t more potent than BRD in terms of personal damage or rDPS. A lot of BRD mains ditched the job after the ShB changes because they preferred SB BRD or they disliked how ShB had no support to it in favor of making DNC the “support king”; while others flocked to DNC in a combination of “shiny new toy” and a lot of healer mains actually swapped to DNC because they were tired of the healers getting the shaft.

That's some interesting... "revision" of history, shall we call it?

Bard was just flat out worse in ShB. Plenty of people liked BRD but felt forced off it.

And this sort of leapfrogging is going to continue because when SE introduced DNC, they didn't give DNC its own niche. So BRD will either be a worse DNC, or DNC will be a worse BRD.

[Connor]

That's some interesting... "revision" of history, shall we call it?

Bard was just flat out worse in ShB. Plenty of people liked BRD but felt forced off it.

And this sort of leapfrogging is going to continue because when SE introduced DNC, they didn't give DNC its own niche. So BRD will either be a worse DNC, or DNC will be a worse BRD.

Hasn’t this been the ranged dps role since Heavensward? I may be remembering wrong since it was a while back. Caster MCH/BRD come out, one does better than the other, SE decides to start a buff war where they were constantly adjusting potencies between the two for balancing (and failed every time from what I remember lol). Stormblood, I honestly cannot remember for some reason lol but I’m sure it was a still a case of one just being better than the other.

Shadowbringers, Dancer comes out, steals most of Bard’s support, brought healing skills that no other ranged had an answer to, becomes the ‘better’ ranged dps option. Bards give up on their job, Machinists disappear from existence.

Come Endwalker, Bard has stolen Technical Step from Dancer except 1% stronger, Dancers are now left with less personal damage and less unique things to bring to the raids. Machinists continue to be intangible (I’ve honestly seen like 4 this whole expansion lol)

Since then SE been caught in a desperate tug of war with itself to keep the ranged role balance between its own jobs and the other roles; it wouldn’t be the first time 4X Bard raids were a thing lol. The only difference is that they don’t have the resources to make as many adjustments mid-expansion, I guess because they have so much additional jobs to worry about now.

I predict that with the next expansion, Dancers will see a significant increase in their personal dps. Their support kits will be removed (both Steps are now just pure damage), Curing Waltz is now 120s cd. Machinist gets a permanent 5% damage buff to one party member, a 5% damage buff for the party every 120 seconds and it can restore HP to itself and nearby party members. It has slightly less dps to compensate (but still outdoes Dancer in rDPS). Dancers give up on their job, Bards cease to exist.

Come the next expansion…just swap the class names around lol. The ranged dps role is just an infinite game of musical chairs where everyone is too scared to sit down in case the chair is taken from under them

[Risvertasashi]

Hasn’t this been the ranged dps role since Heavensward? -snip-

MCH vs other phys ranged at least has one distinction now:

MCH is the selfish "pure dps" while dancer-bard is the buffer/"rDPS dps".

So in short, yes, you're pretty much right - but I don't think SE will ever give MCH raid buffs like that. They're comfortable in their own niche. It's DNC and BRD that are problematic and need distinct identities.

The other thing I wish to note is that it's not that SE doesn't have the resources to do mid-patch balancing. They actively choose not to. This is also something that dates back to heavensward when statics would get upset at having chosen a comp, but then feel they would have to change in the middle of a raid patch. (Yeah, also sucks for WHMs that predicted the EW changes would dumpster them... then got dumpstered... and now are locked into dumpster mode till 6.1 at the earliest)

[Jirah]

Hate playing high apm/cpm class like bard/mch due to carpal tunnel sydrome i love my dnc but been kicked/refused by parties cause want bard/mch in their party and this upsets me as dnc main

I have literally never ever seen a single PF group that favored a MCH over a DNC much less exclude jobs, wtf kind of server are you playing in?

[Vatom]

Nah, DNC definitely needs some sort of potency buff. BRD is roughly 8% ahead of it right now, and it doesn’t give nearly enough rDPS to warrant being so low. It didn’t in ShB either.

In ShB, DNC wasn’t more potent than BRD in terms of personal damage or rDPS. A lot of BRD mains ditched the job after the ShB changes because they preferred SB BRD or they disliked how ShB had no support to it in favor of making DNC the “support king”; while others flocked to DNC in a combination of “shiny new toy” and a lot of healer mains actually swapped to DNC because they were tired of the healers getting the shaft.

8% I think would be solved with more feathers procs not with pot buffs
if there is that much discrepancy in the damage its the kit in its self not just pots
This is why I say more feathers and better procs, back in ShB you could get procs separate for each weaponskill
I don't see that in the new dancer but I also think they should have a heavier ally buff
this way working with bard then fight with them for dominance
But overall BrD should do more dmg just how much more is the question

[Shironeko_Narunyan]

8% I think would be solved with more feathers procs not with pot buffs
if there is that much discrepancy in the damage its the kit in its self not just pots
This is why I say more feathers and better procs, back in ShB you could get procs separate for each weaponskill
I don't see that in the new dancer but I also think they should have a heavier ally buff
this way working with bard then fight with them for dominance
But overall BrD should do more dmg just how much more is the question

Actually, I don't want more feathers. Procs are a fun idea in general, but they take up brain bandwidth (for the wrong reasons), similar to DOTs. You want the job to be smooth, not marred with RNG. RNG is what made the dancer unappealing in the past, you either did nice damage or none at all, and not thanks to your skill as a player.

[Lunalepsy]

Hate playing high apm/cpm class like bard/mch due to carpal tunnel sydrome i love my dnc but been kicked/refused by parties cause want bard/mch in their party and this upsets me as dnc main

Because they don't understand that dancers are a support job, and that role does not explicitly exist in this game.

[HyoMinPark]

8% I think would be solved with more feathers procs not with pot buffs
if there is that much discrepancy in the damage its the kit in its self not just pots
This is why I say more feathers and better procs, back in ShB you could get procs separate for each weaponskill
I don't see that in the new dancer but I also think they should have a heavier ally buff
this way working with bard then fight with them for dominance
But overall BrD should do more dmg just how much more is the question

I don’t think you can solve damage discrepancies like what exist between BRD and DNC via RNG procs. Because then you have to hope your proc rate is high enough to close the gap, versus potency buffs are more of a guaranteed increase.

Back in ShB, only your “Flourished” procs could generate feathers. You had a 50% chance to proc Reverse Cascade and Fountainfall off of Cascade and Fountain, respectfully. Likewise, there was a 50% chance to proc Rising Windmill and Bloodshower from Windmill and Bladeshower, respectively. Feathers only proc’d off of your procs—never off of your base combos, so it wasn’t any weaponskill would grant you a feather, and your procs were specific to the base combo button.

There was also only a 50% chance. Fan Dance III was a 50% chance off of Fan Dance I and II. So you can see how RNGesus could decide to spite you easily. Increasing items to give procs still won’t guarantee to close a damage gap. Just like increasing the number of available procs won’t guarantee it. At the end of the day, they remain a coin flip.

If you want to guarantee closing any gap, you adjust the potency of DNC’s base combo or other skills that don’t rely on RNGesus being nice. Otherwise, you’re still risking it falling behind should a given DNC have a bad run. And believe me, they exist.

[JanVanding]

The problem is and I'm going to be that dissenting voice....

People pushed really really hard to make DNC fall more into their supporting skills and they should know full well what that meant for them going forward.

They took away its rather interesting niche of being a true skirmisher, DNC had to get in the enemies face to do their step finishes and flourish rotations which made them a somewhat risky, but rewarding job that flit in to burst and then flit back out to do their standard rotation, this was afforded before but taken away because the loudest voices begged for the DNC to be more supportive, to stay back, to focus on buffing their allies more

SE gave those people exactly what they asked for and anyone that has played this game for any length of time knows

the dev team does not like supports being powerful because the games' balance begins to revolve around them.

I wasn't here for HW but I was for ARR and and I remember how necessary things like Stone skin were, you simply couldn't do certain turns of coil without it, the game was being balanced around that ability, so SE did away with it, as they did protect, shellga, cleric stance and many other things that would deem as "we have to balance exclusively around this"

So ever since, supports don't get to be strong, they get to support and not much else.

DNC had a massive identity crisis in ShB, you could see part of a vision that SE wanted for them (a skirmisher dps) that was bogged down by this whole "but dancers must support" and now they've learned further into that and what is DNC now?

A cheerleader and not much else and that's because people were pushing too hard for something that they should know throughout the past....

SE will take away or they will purposely under tune because they don't want the game to revolve around it.

BRD funnily enough for the first time in a long long time, actually escaped their own personal identity crisis, they actually play....well, like a bard, a tempo paced job that bolsters through song, exactly as it was always supposed to be and the reason BRD is doing so well despite also being penalized for having supportive abilities but DNC isn't?

BRD spreads their deficit across the entire group so it's much easier to pick up the slack, DNC is entirely reliant on their partner being a DPS machine and doing double the work to make up for their shortfall.

Now you have to ask yourself an important question when it comes to DNC, what exactly do you want SE to buff on it?

If they buff their RDPS, they will likely lose more personal dps as further tax, remember SE does not want a supportive job to take over the game like SCHs did back in ARR.
If they buff their DPS, they will lose more RDPS, they'll likely come back to a more comfortable personal spot, but not be as strong supporting their team

Personally, I'd just do away with Dance Partner entirely and go all in with Step Burst Windows but that's just me.

[Reimmi]

I would like to see the new abilities be general procs not just tied to cooldowns
i played dancer for the proc gameplay, and this would count as a buff if the chance was substantial enough, but be more fun than just potency boosts