Disappointed in one Endwalker Aspect [SPOILERS]

[Denishia]

On the in-game character making physical reactions that I as the player didn't feel- having to WoL reach out distract towards Emet Selch I felt was very unearned, because Shadowbringer nor Endwalker did NOT do anything to reverse my opinion of his personality as not merely unpleasant with negative charisma but an amalgamation of every horrible condescending coworker and boss I've had to suffer through and his motivations as contrary to mine own (I would have loved a joke response to his demand that I tell him info because of his position on the Convocation with a snarky, "My only interaction with the Convocation is murdering them because they kill trying to murder me"). He and Hythlodaeus might have been Azem's good friends- but me-as-the-WoL did not have a positive emotional attachment to them.

To me, Hades is treated far more heroically and sympathetically than I feel justified and that his overwhelming continued presence and treatment inside the game was colored by his popularity outside of it.

I agree that the why the story writes the relationship with Zenos is another were me as the player is emotionally disconnecting from what me-as-the-WoL is written to feel. I don't desire to fight him because I found him boring, both as a character and his actual fights, so if the in-game model was more accurate, it'd be eyerolls instead of clenched fists.

But that is to say- how one reacts to characters is subjective. And after so many complaints about the WoL standing expressionless during cutscenes or only nodding, these later expansions are starting to address those complaints by adding in reactions- which means not all will land.

And XIV isn't an open sandbox game, at least not the MSQ, nor does it have branching paths, so the single path that it does have has clearly defined protagonists and antagonists and supporting cast and one side will be the protagonists' side and the other given the focus needed to make antagonists work for the story.

[vormela]

And XIV isn't an open sandbox game, at least not the MSQ, nor does it have branching paths, so the single path that it does have has clearly defined protagonists and antagonists and supporting cast and one side will be the protagonists' side and the other given the focus needed to make antagonists work for the story.

Right. And isn't it ingenious and also convenient that we can say, "It is an MMO, but we are all playing the same role...as individual shards of this Azem person... who has certain values and mannerisms that all of us seem to have in common for some reason, according to the other characters..." That is why my immersion doesn't break much. Even the Zenos smirk seemed off but I was like yeah, they are having an Azem moment and that is just what they do. In some ways we can't escape our inherited traits, as anyone with crappy parents can tell you.

I hope this might help some people stay invested in their character. We are all different, but in some ways the same, and the shards-of-Azem thing is an elegant solution. And even if we aren't actually shards of Azem, it is people's expectations of us that have led to main character's development and mannerisms. I guess the opposite of feeling like words are put in your mouth would be the Crystarium people who are like "WE ARE ALL WARRIORS OF LIGHT!!!" I don't think that has been the way they've portrayed main character in the narrative, either. We have some agency. Like the Azim Steppe quest where the guy was sad because he couldn't fight with the weapon he was destined to fight with and wound up being a great hand-to-hand fighter.

It has been a very meta experience to play this game. I hope I am not alone. It gives me a lot to think about aside from which side my character is on or if they don't do the vanu vanu dance quite like I would IRL.

[Denishia]

YES- that's why even if I strongly disagree with the emotional connection or lack thereof to various protagonists and antagonists that other posters on this forum do, I do feel that same disconnect if in different places and to different degrees and thus understand it. And why my biggest fear is making the WoL revolve more and more around Azem and making Azem more of a distinct character, because XIV has worked so hard to keep the WoL a blank slate hero where it can. Right now Azem going around helping people where they could and sharing like Venat did a joy and wonder for the world as a whole works. But the more they lean into Azem, my unease grows. And some of the meta commentary around Zenos as a foil of the player character didn't land for me- but I won't deny what the writers were trying to do and that it was highly effective for a large segment of the player base.

[OhNooo]

I hope this might help some people stay invested in their character. We are all different, but in some ways the same, and the shards-of-Azem thing is an elegant solution. And even if we aren't actually shards of Azem, it is people's expectations of us that have led to main character's development and mannerisms. I guess the opposite of feeling like words are put in your mouth would be the Crystarium people who are like "WE ARE ALL WARRIORS OF LIGHT!!!" I don't think that has been the way they've portrayed main character in the narrative, either. We have some agency.

As someone who has never really done roleplaying in this game (just have my own personal head cannons), I'm actually looking forward to different paths my character could take in the future now that the Zodiark/Hydaelyn saga has come to an end. I feel like my character always viewed all of this as a burden and something tying him down. Now he can breathe a sigh of relief and cast off the whole title of WOL/WOD and just have fun and do what he wants. There are so many possibilities and I'm interested to see the direction they end up taking the story next.

[OhNooo]

To me, Hades is treated far more heroically and sympathetically than I feel justified and that his overwhelming continued presence and treatment inside the game was colored by his popularity outside of it.

Oh I definitely suspect that the writers may not have expected such an overwhelming response from the players about Emet and may not have intended to bring him back at first. I think there for sure was fan service with that.

But that is to say- how one reacts to characters is subjective. And after so many complaints about the WoL standing expressionless during cutscenes or only nodding, these later expansions are starting to address those complaints by adding in reactions- which means not all will land.

And XIV isn't an open sandbox game, at least not the MSQ, nor does it have branching paths, so the single path that it does have has clearly defined protagonists and antagonists and supporting cast and one side will be the protagonists' side and the other given the focus needed to make antagonists work for the story.

Yeah I do remember hearing about those complaints. They can't win no matter what they do because they can't please everyone of course. I think the fact that they stepped it up so much with the story in Shb caused a lot of people to become more invested/interested in the story and then you get disappointed when something doesn't turn out the way you want or when you have to pick a dialogue option that you don't want to pick. I definitely have to keep reminding myself that it's an mmorpg with no branching paths and with the story and direction already decided.

[Denishia]

Oh I definitely suspect that the writers may not have expected such an overwhelming response from the players about Emet and may not have intended to bring him back at first. I think there for sure was fan service with that.

My tinfoil hat theory that Emet narrating Endwalker [My actual biggest complaint about the choices in EW on a purely personal, only for me, gripe is that Emet narrating each zone started each new chapter on a sour note, it was one of my biggest fears going into EW. Also the stealth following of children was one side-quest too many] was a change halfway through the development of the game and that the original plan was to have Alphinaud reciting a letter home [the incandescent joy that I felt when the narration finally stopped being Emet and was now Alphie]

[ReynTime]

On the in-game character making physical reactions that I as the player didn't feel- having to WoL reach out distract towards Emet Selch I felt was very unearned, because Shadowbringer nor Endwalker did NOT do anything to reverse my opinion of his personality as not merely unpleasant with negative charisma but an amalgamation of every horrible condescending coworker and boss I've had to suffer through and his motivations as contrary to mine own (I would have loved a joke response to his demand that I tell him info because of his position on the Convocation with a snarky, "My only interaction with the Convocation is murdering them because they kill trying to murder me"). He and Hythlodaeus might have been Azem's good friends- but me-as-the-WoL did not have a positive emotional attachment to them.

To me, Hades is treated far more heroically and sympathetically than I feel justified and that his overwhelming continued presence and treatment inside the game was colored by his popularity outside of it.

I agree that the why the story writes the relationship with Zenos is another were me as the player is emotionally disconnecting from what me-as-the-WoL is written to feel. I don't desire to fight him because I found him boring, both as a character and his actual fights, so if the in-game model was more accurate, it'd be eyerolls instead of clenched fists.

But that is to say- how one reacts to characters is subjective. And after so many complaints about the WoL standing expressionless during cutscenes or only nodding, these later expansions are starting to address those complaints by adding in reactions- which means not all will land.

And XIV isn't an open sandbox game, at least not the MSQ, nor does it have branching paths, so the single path that it does have has clearly defined protagonists and antagonists and supporting cast and one side will be the protagonists' side and the other given the focus needed to make antagonists work for the story.

You're definitely not alone in the lack of empathy towards Emet. I like him as a villain but I definitely do not like the hipocrisy in some of his fanbase.
It's weird how all these people looking for virtue signaling seem to love Emet despite him being directly responsible for a genocide brought upon a continent of people who were just trying to live in peace after fleeing from a star that had just been destroyed by invaders. And, y'know, multiple other genocides. That one just stands out to me as the cruelest.