Disappointed in one Endwalker Aspect [SPOILERS]

[Kordarion]

Strand someone in the desert without water. They'll die in 3 days. But you didn't kill them directly, so you were just being a dick, right? Come up with a real argument next time.

Did the sundering leave people with out food, water or shelter? We don't know but if everything was an exact copy of before, which it appears to be considering the near identical geography of the source and the first, then I would argue that that did still have all of the elements needed to survive. What you however are insinuating is that Venat just left everyone to die which makes absolutely no sense for the simple fact that we know there were imediately post-sundering civilizations, the Qitana Ravel cave paintings for example. It therefore shows that you don't have a real argument, you couldn't disagree with my point of Venat not directly committing murder so you push this allegory of stranding someone in a desert as if that is even remotely applicable, you appear to want some reason to paint Venat as pure evil so much that you are grasping at straws to justify that.

We also know that pre-sundering Etheriys was capable of sustaining life considering the fact that we know that the Ancients enacted a second sacrifice to Zodiark that returned the physical world to its pre-final days state.

[KariTheFox]

I think comparisons to real world actions fall apart because in real life, nobody is an immortal, god-like being. And there is very little in terms of real life analogue to being turned from an immortal, godlike being into a regular person.

[Vyrerus]

I think comparisons to real world actions fall apart because in real life, nobody is an immortal, god-like being. And there is very little in terms of real life analogue to being turned from an immortal, godlike being into a regular person.

Within the setting of the story they were regular people. That's how far their civilization had climbed. The only reason we can't relate to that specific is because we are only imagining it, not living it. It is an inherit problem with humans telling stories. We can only take the story as far in relatability as the audience is able to imagine.

But there's no real need to relate to immortality or god-likeness. We're shown in Elpis that they still have foibles, and are basically just people with abilities extraordinary to us. The importance is that they were people. They had dreams. They had loves. They had favorite foods. The need to eat. The need to rest. The need to cry.

So real world comparisons don't really fall apart due to that facet of the story. In this instance, the writers actually use our real world experience against the Ancients' story to cudgel a philosophy into us. We accept it, because it's more readily relatable.

[RyuDragnier]

From what I see, the Sundering did not change the cycle of life much outside of lifespans. If you go under the assumption that the lifespans of all creatures were adjusted, then it would, say, make it so a wolf only lives 10-13 years, when prior it would have lived up to 140-172 years. It was akin to (because this recently happened ingame) a stat squish, with not much changing in the long term, just lives ending in shorter time frames than they once did. Probably means changes to the planet also took way longer than they do currently on the Source, so it could have taken tens of thousands of years just for a small environmental change in the past.

[KariTheFox]

When you come across the Qitana Ravel cave paintings, Y'sthola remarks that they might predate the empire. They also appear remarkly different in aesthetic from the surrounding Ronkan ruins.

The cutscene that follows has Emet-Selch talking about how once, long ago everyone remembers the sundering and the final days. There is no indication that the Ronkans made the cave paintings, or that anyone had to be told about the events being depicted. Emet-Selch says they were drawn from fragmented memories and vague impressions of a forgotten world the people who drew them once knew.

[RyuDragnier]

Adding to the mentioning of the Rift, as we've seen through our travel to the First and Elpis, time does not flow normally in the Rift. 5 years on the First was akin to a few months on the Source, something that doesn't make much sense unless you assume that the Rift itself refracts time like water does light.

[KariTheFox]

I don't think we can say either Emet-Selch or Venat would have lived forever given the exceptional circumstances they both presented. Venat being a primal that lived at the center of the world, and Emet-Selch engaging in the practice of constant ascian body swapping.

On the other hand, "death by old age" seemed unknown by the ancients. But maybe their civilization just hadn't lasted long enough for that to happen to anyone.

[Kordarion]

I don't think we can say either Emet-Selch or Venat would have lived forever given the exceptional circumstances they both presented. Venat being a primal that lived at the center of the world, and Emet-Selch engaging in the practice of constant ascian body swapping.

On the other hand, "death by old age" seemed unknown by the ancients. But maybe their civilization just hadn't lasted long enough for that to happen to anyone.

It makes sense that the ancients had no concept of death by old age, after all their society is built around committing ritual suicide once your personal purpose in life is fulfilled. This combined with Emet-Selch stating that Venat is an outcast for NOT offing herself once her initial purpose is done implies that the vast majority of ancients willingly ended their lives before they could come to a natural end.

[EirolOcarrol]

So it really bothers me that Square Enix played it rather "safe" with this story. I came into the story hoping that Hydaelyn was actually going to be the villain of the story all along and we have been doing her bidding because we were "tempered" to her. I think they really did hint at this in Shadowbringers.

And I would have been even more disappointed if this were the case.

I'm so relieved they didn't do that. It would have been truly awful and heartbreaking.

[Denishia]

As a Silmarillion fan, if we want to start drawing the parallels, what we're really getting into is if the Gift of Men is a gift or not, whether the Tale of Adanel is true and the current mortals actually had mortality from the start or had the elven style functional immortality unless slain by violence or willing dying (via depression), and if the Ancients actually had the mandate from Ilúvatar to be the sub-creators and stewards of Arda like the Valar or if that authority is self-appointed.
This, however, is not the forum where we debate which element from HoME should have greater canonicity, thank the Belain.