Dear warriors, sincerely healers

[Accolades]

If you don't have to heal, then do DPS! There's no reason why warriors should choose not to use their kit just so you can avoid doing damage. Please, please help your group by doing damage. Don't just stand there doing nothing. Don't demand that warriors play worse just so you can play worse.

I'm sure he was joking and was clearly a message to the developers.

[Maxilor]

This entire thread screams insecurity.

While we're at it, Dancers stop using Curing Waltz. I can heal just fine THANK YOU.

[Theox]

The only thing I care about as a healer is tanks using their mitigation tools, the rest I don't care about. They can solo the dungeon while I afk at a spawn point for all I know.

[Hanaya]

Because you will be healing 99.99% of other times? Hyperbole is hyperbole my man, you're talking as if WAR healing somehow invalidate healer as a whole. This kind of tank are the rare exception that you get to enjoy when you run into them, not the norm. Unless you live exclusive inside a static's bubble, the norm is busting your butt to keep the party up, and fail anyway, to the point you LB3 them up ... just to have them die again

I barely ever heal as a healer. I barely have to heal in dungeons because such little damage comes out. I've been grinding the ex trials since like early week 2 for gear/mounts, and I barely have to heal in those too unless my team is chain eating mechs/dying (in which case I'd rather just have the fight be unrecoverable. it's kind of silly to me that I can clear ex2 with 10+ deaths in the party). Literally the only time I have to heal other than occasional ogcds for a raidwide are when a good number of people in my party is eating shit, which, while fun, is not the norm. Healers shouldn't only have to heal if their party is consistently failing mechs, they should have to heal even if fights are going perfectly well because like... that's the point of the class.

I've been running dungeons since day one of early access and none of my tanks have died even doing wall to wall pulls, because if you use your kit properly it's basically impossible. Maybe in dungeons like bardam's mettle, where the pulls are actually decently difficult, but at this point dungeons limit you to 2-3 mob pack pulls at most, which means that there's literally not even a chance of enough damage coming out for tanks to actually be difficult to heal. This isn't hyperbole, this is just my anecdotal experience of endwalker since day1. All of my friends have said the same, and I've been seeing a lot of people complaining about this on the forums/discord, so I'm definitely not the only one.

I'm fine if the game continues to not have much damage going out too. But if that's the case, for the love of god, please at least make healer's dps skills interesting. Spamming one button nonstop for an entire fight is as far from engaging as it can get, pretty much. Tanks get entire dps skill combos and damage buffs that they can utilize even when they're barely taking any damage, so I'm sure they could at least make healer dps kits marginally more interesting than 1 dot, 1 dps single target cast, and 1 aoe skill.

In WOW I feel like I had an entire dps rotation while still having to heal regularly for outgoing damage. ESO also felt similar, same for SWTOR. FFXIV is literally the only mmo I've played where I feel like healing is just so desperately bland. I do have fun with trying to get maximum dps uptime in fights, but I could also do that on literally any other class, so that's not really a highlight of healing for me.

[Hanaya]

You're basically there to fix mistakes. I've never done an Ultimate or relevant Savage encounter, yet oddly enough, the times that my kit has been pushed to its limits, has almost always been in casual content. Particularly in DF and Alliance Raids. Learning parties in PF are also fantastic arenas for healers to utilize their kits.

Skilled players don't really need healers that much. Your run of the mill casual player however, is a much different story. Tanks can sustain themselves, and help out another player or two. But no role can salvage a run gone bad like a healer. They have the ability to totally swing things back in the favor of the party when a wipe is certain. Healers can't really save runs in the same fashion for Savage and Ultimate's because if that many players are screwing up, the DPS will not be high enough to prevent enrage.


That's not going to fix anything. You will still burn through whatever rotation this is, and end up right back to filler spam. Healers will never be given anything as involved as a DPS job's rotation, and since you DPS for 80-90% of the encounter, that window is just too large for healers to not end up at the filler spell very quickly. My suggestion is to get them more involved with their job gauges. Particularly SCH and WHM who have passive job gauges, with SCH being the worst off having just one very niche skill tied to the gauge.

Dps checks in savage and ultimate have felt honestly pretty lenient to me? I've been able to pretty reliably clear most savage fights with upwards of 5-6 deaths, and later in the tier like 10+ deaths lol. And for ultimates, I haven't done all of them, but in ucob you can just chain die in at least twin and nael and still clear before the enrage cast even starts. Adds + golden bahamut are nicer where it's more like 2-3 deaths, but that was even with me doing absolutely garbage dps lol.

I'm willing to admit that I'm probably coming at this from a pretty different perspective from the average player though, and have probably just been getting very lucky in my pfs since endwalker dropped, I guess? I like to join learning parties just to help out people, though, and I've still felt like the fights are super lenient in regards to healing. I've solo healed both a couple of times, and especially ex1 felt wayy too easy.

But, y'know, if a big majority of the playerbase is happy with healers as they are, then I'm fine with it. I do understand that if I'm in a minority of players, the devs shouldn't be trying to cater to me. I'll just play other classes lol

edit: but also, I feel like I've seen 3+ threads in the healer forum complaining about this exact thing? I really do feel like a lot of healer players have been complaining about how the class works recently (and I also saw a fair amount of posts in shb too).

[Liam_Harper]

Unpopular but obviously true opinion: WARs need to be nerfed.

Sure, but will that solve the issue of healers having barely anything to heal?

Take away WAR's Nascent Flash, the healers heal them with a few oGCD's because most content hits like a wet noodle and continue to spam their 1 dps button and fall asleep. Nothing really changes. I don't understand this whole uproar over WAR's when it's a symptom of a much larger issue that has become deeply embedded into the game design over the years. Most content barely does damage unless the group screws up. The fact that healers purpose in the game is so delicate that one tank heal can make them irrelevant in some cases, is a sign of a much larger issue.

Maybe WAR's do need a nerf, maybe they don't, but it feels like players are getting worked up over a scratch on the side of the bus when the wheels have been removed and the windows smashed.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Please stop healing other people in dungeons. Extremes sure! Savage, lovely! I don’t mind that you can keep yourself healed, that’s to be expected from warriors at this point. But please please let healers heal the group. The only thing we have that keeps us from falling asleep are those lovely DPS who get hit by mechanics.. I get that’s it’s free but look, at least you have your dps rotation to keep you occupied. We healers literally spam one single button. Let us have something else to do. Please, please, please stop healing the party.

Thank u

Sorry. I have to disagree with you. Personally, I enjoy sharing the burden of healing with warriors, red mages, etc... especially when I'm facing an encounter I haven't been in before. Also, who am I to tell another player not to use their kit?

[HyoMinPark]

Dps checks in savage and ultimate have felt honestly pretty lenient to me? I've been able to pretty reliably clear most savage fights with upwards of 5-6 deaths, and later in the tier like 10+ deaths lol. And for ultimates, I haven't done all of them, but in ucob you can just chain die in at least twin and nael and still clear before the enrage cast even starts. Adds + golden bahamut are nicer where it's more like 2-3 deaths, but that was even with me doing absolutely garbage dps lol.

They are quite lenient. The only time when Savage has tight checks is usually during Week 1 when raiders are in mostly pentamelded crafted gear—but usually only for the third and fourth floors. The first and second have been kept very accessible since Creator. E8S’s enrage was incredibly tight Week 1. For my Eden’s Promise group, E11S and E12S were as well, but that was also primarily because we had healers that preferred to focus on healing versus damage. And you need healer damage if you are trying to clear the third and fourth floors early.

The later you get into a tier, the more lenient they get because you can outgear them. Better gear provides more leniency for error. I’ll be curious how the first tier of Pandaemonium Savage holds up—right now, I think a lot of speculation is that it will likely be on par with Eden’s Gate difficulty.

I'm willing to admit that I'm probably coming at this from a pretty different perspective from the average player though, and have probably just been getting very lucky in my pfs since endwalker dropped, I guess? I like to join learning parties just to help out people, though, and I've still felt like the fights are super lenient in regards to healing. I've solo healed both a couple of times, and especially ex1 felt wayy too easy.

You aren’t really mistaken. Healer requirements are quite low even in high-end content. For the two current extremes, I don’t have to use a single GCD heal on SGE, and can heal primarily with Kerachole, Ixochole, and Physis. The only time I use GCDs is during downtime to hopefully get some Toxikon stacks. But this is nothing new. Low healing requirements in Savage and Ultimate have been a complaint from healer mains for a long time.

But, y'know, if a big majority of the playerbase is happy with healers as they are, then I'm fine with it. I do understand that if I'm in a minority of players, the devs shouldn't be trying to cater to me. I'll just play other classes lol

edit: but also, I feel like I've seen 3+ threads in the healer forum complaining about this exact thing? I really do feel like a lot of healer players have been complaining about how the class works recently (and I also saw a fair amount of posts in shb too).

A lot of the healer mains that have played the role for a long time, or who enjoy higher-end content want more to heal. I’d love having more stuff to heal, and it’s honestly why I enjoyed healing Living Liquid in TEA when I ventured in there on AST back in ShB because I actually had to heal. But because the developers cater so heavily to the lowest common denominator when it comes to job and encounter design, it’s unlikely they will add steep healing requirements due to fear that the more inexperienced healers wouldn’t be able to handle it and would instead call for nerfs to the content. Which has also been a trend whenever something halfway difficult pops up in the game (notable examples being Royal Menagerie, Castrum Fluminis, The Will of the Moon solo instance, and any 24-man that requires you to be half-awake for).

[ForteNightshade]

Unpopular but obviously true opinion: WARs need to be nerfed.

While not quite the insane levels as Bloodwhetting, Holy Shelltron and Heart of Corundum are extremely powerful themselves. GNB doesn't need a healer to survive any dungeon boss any more than Warrior does. They just can't get away with eating wind burns or vuln stacks as easily. Even the much meme'd on DRK takes virtually no damage from the two EX primals. You'll have TBN, Dark Mind and Oblation for every single buster. That much raw mitigation plus shielding is enough you won't even get vuln stacks eating things because both bosses won't even deal any damage to you. I pulled off crap like that back in Shadowbringers. DRK laughed at E9S damage downs. Can't get them if I don't even take damage.

The issue is and always has been content simply doesn't hit hard enough for the tools at our disposal. Unfortunately, the devs are more concerned with casual players who barely know how to string buttons together than they are with even average players. They want accessibility above all else in the vast majority of content. Hence why dungeons are a complete joke and why EX primals have slowly gotten easier every expansion with a few exceptions.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Unpopular but obviously true opinion: WARs need to be nerfed.

What about them to nerf? Sustainability?
If so, then there’s no reason to bring them outside aesthetic & simplicity reasons.

That’s pretty much the only edge they have over other tanks. (Except the posterboi PLD, RIP PLD)

I do have to say that Raw Intuition/Bloodwhetting/Nascent Flash’s description is slightly misleading. I was imagining it would only heal them for flat 400p for each weaponskills performed. Turns out that value multiplies in AoE situation. Definitely not what I expected.