Dear warriors, sincerely healers

[Hanaya]

Please, Warriors, stop using every tool in your kit and be bad players so that I can feel better as a healer when you give me full uptime to DPS and I refuse to.

I'm not disagreeing with you that it's not the tanks fault for just using their kit lmao.... but like, what's the point of even picking a healer if you barely get to do any healing at all? I play healers because sometimes I want to heal. But the game is balanced to the point where I'm literally just trapped spamming [boring dps button] over and over in every instance because outgoing damage is so low the party doesn't need me. I actually enjoy dpsing, but that's on an actual dps (or tank) class that actually has a rotation that isn't mind numbingly boring. EX1 is an especially egregious example of this. If your party is mostly competent, you spend pretty much the entire fight just casting [boring dps button] nonstop for the whole fight because there's basically like, 3 times in the fight that the party actually gets hit by unavoidable damage.

Like, not the tanks fault. When I play non-healer classes I throw out my healing/mitigation whenever possible because it's not like I lose anything from doing so. But healing as it is is so dull that it actually just feels like taking sandpaper to my brain. At least give healers some semblance of a dps rotation if they're going to be so pointless for 90% of every fight. especially considering the fact that 80% of the tanks I encounter in df seem so insistent on single pulling every pack of mobs and therefore taking so little damage that I don't even get to press more than one ogcd a pull.

[Raven2014]

I'm not disagreeing with you that it's not the tanks fault for just using their kit lmao.... but like, what's the point of even picking a healer

Because you will be healing 99.99% of other times? Hyperbole is hyperbole my man, you're talking as if WAR healing somehow invalidate healer as a whole. This kind of tank are the rare exception that you get to enjoy when you run into them, not the norm. Unless you live exclusive inside a static's bubble, the norm is busting your butt to keep the party up, and fail anyway, to the point you LB3 them up ... just to have them die again (literally describing my experience this morning).

I just finished lvling my 8th healer to lvl90 this morning, I'll take all the good War I can get because sometime I can't heal GNB or DRK fast enough.

[Hanaya]

Because you will be healing 99.99% of other times? Hyperbole is hyperbole my man, you're talking as if WAR healing somehow invalidate healer as a whole. This kind of tank are the rare exception that you get to enjoy when you run into them, not the norm. Unless you live exclusive inside a static's bubble, the norm is busting your butt to keep the party up, and fail anyway, to the point you LB3 them up ... just to have them die again

I barely ever heal as a healer. I barely have to heal in dungeons because such little damage comes out. I've been grinding the ex trials since like early week 2 for gear/mounts, and I barely have to heal in those too unless my team is chain eating mechs/dying (in which case I'd rather just have the fight be unrecoverable. it's kind of silly to me that I can clear ex2 with 10+ deaths in the party). Literally the only time I have to heal other than occasional ogcds for a raidwide are when a good number of people in my party is eating shit, which, while fun, is not the norm. Healers shouldn't only have to heal if their party is consistently failing mechs, they should have to heal even if fights are going perfectly well because like... that's the point of the class.

I've been running dungeons since day one of early access and none of my tanks have died even doing wall to wall pulls, because if you use your kit properly it's basically impossible. Maybe in dungeons like bardam's mettle, where the pulls are actually decently difficult, but at this point dungeons limit you to 2-3 mob pack pulls at most, which means that there's literally not even a chance of enough damage coming out for tanks to actually be difficult to heal. This isn't hyperbole, this is just my anecdotal experience of endwalker since day1. All of my friends have said the same, and I've been seeing a lot of people complaining about this on the forums/discord, so I'm definitely not the only one.

I'm fine if the game continues to not have much damage going out too. But if that's the case, for the love of god, please at least make healer's dps skills interesting. Spamming one button nonstop for an entire fight is as far from engaging as it can get, pretty much. Tanks get entire dps skill combos and damage buffs that they can utilize even when they're barely taking any damage, so I'm sure they could at least make healer dps kits marginally more interesting than 1 dot, 1 dps single target cast, and 1 aoe skill.

In WOW I feel like I had an entire dps rotation while still having to heal regularly for outgoing damage. ESO also felt similar, same for SWTOR. FFXIV is literally the only mmo I've played where I feel like healing is just so desperately bland. I do have fun with trying to get maximum dps uptime in fights, but I could also do that on literally any other class, so that's not really a highlight of healing for me.

[Raven2014]

I barely ever heal as a healer. I barely have to heal in dungeons because such little damage comes out.

Either you're lucky enough and the DF god had blessed you, or you're running with your mate, or you're straight up lying. If your experience is the typical out there, we wouldn't have all of those threads in the first 2 weeks asking if Healer had got neft or healing had become harder.

Like I said, I got 8 healer up to 90 (spread among 4 char). Yeah, there are some tank that made me forgot half of my kits, there are tanks that make wish all my heal has double potency. And the former are the exception, the later is the norm. I just got out of an A2 raid that last for a whole freaking 20 minutes where there were more deaths than there were people in the party.

I've been grinding the ex trials since like early week 2 for gear/mounts, and I barely have to heal in those too unless my team is chain eating mechs/dying (in which case I'd rather just have the fight be unrecoverable. it's kind of silly to me that I can clear ex2 with 10+ deaths in the party).

And if a college student go pick up a middle school problem, solve it and complain it's too easy ... I bet that would look silly too.

I mean ... I have an ultimate static, and when I play with them with current contents it's easy. 'cause it's supposed to be easy. Do you know why it needs to be easy? Because I had to run Zodiak 99 times since I had bad luck with rolls. Savage is harder, that's why it's designed you only need to clear it once a week. Then there come Ultimate in which, I know a lot of group after their first clear never try to attempt it again. My group despite cleared several time, but after each clear the next one was never taken for granted. That's the kind of content that will push your kit to its limit.

On the flip side, playing with pugs also push your kit to its limit too, in a total different way. In the end, it would be insanity for them to create farmable content like dungeon or EX that requires perfection to clear, neither they can gatekeep the kit for only ultimate. The classes are balance with the average players in mind, not just a few with their first world problem. This goes double for healers, a role that is there to provide the margin for the group.

[Hanaya]

Either you're lucky enough and the DF god had blessed you, or you're running with your mate, or you're straight up lying. If your experience is the typical out there, we wouldn't have all of those threads in the first 2 weeks asking if Healer had got neft or healing had become harder.

Like I said, I got 8 healer up to 90 (spread among 4 char). Yeah, there are some tank that made me forgot half of my kits, there are tanks that make wish all my heal has double potency. And the former are the exception, the later is the norm. I just got out of an A2 raid that last for a whole freaking 20 minutes where there were more deaths than there were people in the party.






And if a college student go pick up a middle school problem, solve it and complain it's too easy ... I bet that would look silly too.

I mean ... I have an ultimate static, and when I play with them with current contents it's easy. 'cause it's supposed to be easy. Do you know why it needs to be easy? Because I had to run Zodiak 99 times since I had bad luck with rolls. Savage is harder, that's why it's designed you only need to clear it once a week. Then there come Ultimate in which, I know a lot of group after their first clear never try to attempt it again. My group despite cleared several time, but after each clear the next one was never taken for granted. That's the kind of content that will push your kit to its limit.

On the flip side, playing with pugs also push your kit to its limit too, in a total different way. In the end, it would be insanity for them to create farmable content like dungeon or EX that requires perfection to clear, neither they can gatekeep the kit for only ultimate. The classes are balance with the average players in mind, not just a few with their first world problem. This goes double for healers, a role that is there to provide the margin for the group.

I've been playing since midway through shadowbringers (and like.... 150+ days of gametime playing), and healing has literally felt like I barely ever have to heal outside of savage, especially compared to every other mmo I've played. I'm pretty sure statistically it is very hard for me to just have gotten lucky in every single duty roulette I've done in that time, and I do a lot of them solo (and when I do queue with friends, it's them on dps using me for a fast queue, so I don't think that's making much of a difference outside of the time it takes to kill a mob pack).

But like, seriously, I'm not asking for the class to be harder. I think it's at a fine spot for the average player. I just want it to be more engaging. Casting glare/malefic/broil/whatever sage's ability is called bc I forgot over and over again is just really boring considering how much more healers are expected to dps in this game.

[Gemina]

but like, what's the point of even picking a healer if you barely get to do any healing at all? I play healers because sometimes I want to heal.

You're basically there to fix mistakes. I've never done an Ultimate or relevant Savage encounter, yet oddly enough, the times that my kit has been pushed to its limits, has almost always been in casual content. Particularly in DF and Alliance Raids. Learning parties in PF are also fantastic arenas for healers to utilize their kits.

Skilled players don't really need healers that much. Your run of the mill casual player however, is a much different story. Tanks can sustain themselves, and help out another player or two. But no role can salvage a run gone bad like a healer. They have the ability to totally swing things back in the favor of the party when a wipe is certain. Healers can't really save runs in the same fashion for Savage and Ultimate's because if that many players are screwing up, the DPS will not be high enough to prevent enrage.

At least give healers some semblance of a dps rotation if they're going to be so pointless for 90% of every fight. especially considering the fact that 80% of the tanks I encounter in df seem so insistent on single pulling every pack of mobs and therefore taking so little damage that I don't even get to press more than one ogcd a pull.

That's not going to fix anything. You will still burn through whatever rotation this is, and end up right back to filler spam. Healers will never be given anything as involved as a DPS job's rotation, and since you DPS for 80-90% of the encounter, that window is just too large for healers to not end up at the filler spell very quickly. My suggestion is to get them more involved with their job gauges. Particularly SCH and WHM who have passive job gauges, with SCH being the worst off having just one very niche skill tied to the gauge.

[Accolades]

Please stop using tank stance. The most fun I had in parties is without it.

[Hanaya]

You're basically there to fix mistakes. I've never done an Ultimate or relevant Savage encounter, yet oddly enough, the times that my kit has been pushed to its limits, has almost always been in casual content. Particularly in DF and Alliance Raids. Learning parties in PF are also fantastic arenas for healers to utilize their kits.

Skilled players don't really need healers that much. Your run of the mill casual player however, is a much different story. Tanks can sustain themselves, and help out another player or two. But no role can salvage a run gone bad like a healer. They have the ability to totally swing things back in the favor of the party when a wipe is certain. Healers can't really save runs in the same fashion for Savage and Ultimate's because if that many players are screwing up, the DPS will not be high enough to prevent enrage.


That's not going to fix anything. You will still burn through whatever rotation this is, and end up right back to filler spam. Healers will never be given anything as involved as a DPS job's rotation, and since you DPS for 80-90% of the encounter, that window is just too large for healers to not end up at the filler spell very quickly. My suggestion is to get them more involved with their job gauges. Particularly SCH and WHM who have passive job gauges, with SCH being the worst off having just one very niche skill tied to the gauge.

Dps checks in savage and ultimate have felt honestly pretty lenient to me? I've been able to pretty reliably clear most savage fights with upwards of 5-6 deaths, and later in the tier like 10+ deaths lol. And for ultimates, I haven't done all of them, but in ucob you can just chain die in at least twin and nael and still clear before the enrage cast even starts. Adds + golden bahamut are nicer where it's more like 2-3 deaths, but that was even with me doing absolutely garbage dps lol.

I'm willing to admit that I'm probably coming at this from a pretty different perspective from the average player though, and have probably just been getting very lucky in my pfs since endwalker dropped, I guess? I like to join learning parties just to help out people, though, and I've still felt like the fights are super lenient in regards to healing. I've solo healed both a couple of times, and especially ex1 felt wayy too easy.

But, y'know, if a big majority of the playerbase is happy with healers as they are, then I'm fine with it. I do understand that if I'm in a minority of players, the devs shouldn't be trying to cater to me. I'll just play other classes lol

edit: but also, I feel like I've seen 3+ threads in the healer forum complaining about this exact thing? I really do feel like a lot of healer players have been complaining about how the class works recently (and I also saw a fair amount of posts in shb too).

[HyoMinPark]

Dps checks in savage and ultimate have felt honestly pretty lenient to me? I've been able to pretty reliably clear most savage fights with upwards of 5-6 deaths, and later in the tier like 10+ deaths lol. And for ultimates, I haven't done all of them, but in ucob you can just chain die in at least twin and nael and still clear before the enrage cast even starts. Adds + golden bahamut are nicer where it's more like 2-3 deaths, but that was even with me doing absolutely garbage dps lol.

They are quite lenient. The only time when Savage has tight checks is usually during Week 1 when raiders are in mostly pentamelded crafted gear—but usually only for the third and fourth floors. The first and second have been kept very accessible since Creator. E8S’s enrage was incredibly tight Week 1. For my Eden’s Promise group, E11S and E12S were as well, but that was also primarily because we had healers that preferred to focus on healing versus damage. And you need healer damage if you are trying to clear the third and fourth floors early.

The later you get into a tier, the more lenient they get because you can outgear them. Better gear provides more leniency for error. I’ll be curious how the first tier of Pandaemonium Savage holds up—right now, I think a lot of speculation is that it will likely be on par with Eden’s Gate difficulty.

I'm willing to admit that I'm probably coming at this from a pretty different perspective from the average player though, and have probably just been getting very lucky in my pfs since endwalker dropped, I guess? I like to join learning parties just to help out people, though, and I've still felt like the fights are super lenient in regards to healing. I've solo healed both a couple of times, and especially ex1 felt wayy too easy.

You aren’t really mistaken. Healer requirements are quite low even in high-end content. For the two current extremes, I don’t have to use a single GCD heal on SGE, and can heal primarily with Kerachole, Ixochole, and Physis. The only time I use GCDs is during downtime to hopefully get some Toxikon stacks. But this is nothing new. Low healing requirements in Savage and Ultimate have been a complaint from healer mains for a long time.

But, y'know, if a big majority of the playerbase is happy with healers as they are, then I'm fine with it. I do understand that if I'm in a minority of players, the devs shouldn't be trying to cater to me. I'll just play other classes lol

edit: but also, I feel like I've seen 3+ threads in the healer forum complaining about this exact thing? I really do feel like a lot of healer players have been complaining about how the class works recently (and I also saw a fair amount of posts in shb too).

A lot of the healer mains that have played the role for a long time, or who enjoy higher-end content want more to heal. I’d love having more stuff to heal, and it’s honestly why I enjoyed healing Living Liquid in TEA when I ventured in there on AST back in ShB because I actually had to heal. But because the developers cater so heavily to the lowest common denominator when it comes to job and encounter design, it’s unlikely they will add steep healing requirements due to fear that the more inexperienced healers wouldn’t be able to handle it and would instead call for nerfs to the content. Which has also been a trend whenever something halfway difficult pops up in the game (notable examples being Royal Menagerie, Castrum Fluminis, The Will of the Moon solo instance, and any 24-man that requires you to be half-awake for).