Endwalker was a great mess(SPOILERS)

[Kozh]

Endwalker is pretty confusing for me, emotional wise. By all means, I'm a pretty sentimental person. You give me good cutscene with emotional music, and I'll be hooked. Always has been since ARR; when we escape uldah, fight nidhogg in 3.3, liberating doma, having the alliance soldiers open our way to Ala mhigo castle, fighting emet and elidibus, and many more.

And yet... I rarely feel that way when playing endwalker. The climax of my experience is near the end of elpis, when we can't save the Ancients again. Second in place is when we meet emet and hythlodaeus in ultima Thule. Other than that, honestly not much. Theoretically, I should be feeling something when final days hit thavnair, or when the scion sacrifice themselves (though I can say enjoy Garlemald very much). But I didn't.

I guess it's due to how I disagree with a lot of things the game try to do/tell us. Too much comedy, final days feels less threatening than flood of light, zodiark get so little time screen, time travel being stupid, lopporit, I very much disagree with venat action and motivation, and dynamis being more deus ex machina than aether.

Fortunately Zenos see the memo that he's boring, and will always be, and has the decency to remove himself for most part of the game.

[Shinimas]

Endwalker is pretty confusing for me, emotional wise. By all means, I'm a pretty sentimental person. You give me good cutscene with emotional music, and I'll be hooked. Always has been since ARR; when we escape uldah, fight nidhogg in 3.3, liberating doma, having the alliance soldiers open our way to Ala mhigo castle, fighting emet and elidibus, and many more.

And yet... I rarely feel that way when playing endwalker. The climax of my experience is near the end of elpis, when we can't save the Ancients again. Second in place is when we meet emet and hythlodaeus in ultima Thule. Other than that, honestly not much. Theoretically, I should be feeling something when final days hit thavnair, or when the scion sacrifice themselves (though I can say enjoy Garlemald very much). But I didn't.

I guess it's due to how I disagree with a lot of things the game try to do/tell us. Too much comedy, final days feels less threatening than flood of light, zodiark get so little time screen, time travel being stupid, lopporit, I very much disagree with venat action and motivation, and dynamis being more deus ex machina than aether.

Fortunately Zenos see the memo that he's boring, and will always be, and has the decency to remove himself for most part of the game.

It's all just a bit too anime and melodramatic. So the universe is a cold uncaring place and we're all going to die... wow, what a revelation, surely nobody was aware of that. That's all it takes to create a deity of nihilism and depression?

[AnotherPerson]

It's all just a bit too anime and melodramatic. So the universe is a cold uncaring place and we're all going to die... wow, what a revelation, surely nobody was aware of that. That's all it takes to create a deity of nihilism and depression?

It rings hallow because you assume that you will never achieve immortality and live to see that moment - to experience it yourself. Nah, these people who achieved immortality will live to the end to see it. That's a different story, because now it no longer feels like a distant reality, but a ticking time bomb. The people, with their vast knowledge, apparently did not find the solution to stopping the world's demise, so they, and their immortal descendants will experience the end with them, which denounces their whole goal of working towards immortality. I guess the best example would be if the Amaurots did not have a being like Zodiark in the calamity of the Final Days to turn towards for succor after experiencing the end. They would just be bereft of hope, and in despair.

For people who have finite lifespans, the end is assumed. Imperfect beings like us make most of what we got, and we don't always look past our lifespans, except for considering close descendants. Descendants 1000 years down the line? Most people with a lifespan of 100 years wouldn't worry nor care about that. For civilization to dedicate their entire lives towards preventing their end, and then get slapped in the face that their work is for naught because they're goanna die regardless... is enough for most people to kill themselves at all the wasted effort. That's pretty much something that happens irl too if people can't move forward, except this is depression that leads to eventual suicide on a massive civilization scale. Multiple civilizations, in fact. We don't know the sheer number of planets Meteion's sisters visited, but it was a lot more than just the 6 to 7 we saw.

The deity of nihilism and depression is just there to speed things up after feeling all that pain, because they also share that feeling with others. So if you were burdened with depression, it's like having another problem making your depression worse and worse. That very being would intensify the negative thoughts and could push you to the brink and make you do something you might have regretted, if no one came to intervene. Something like that happened to all the civilizations Meteion met, except on a massive scale. I'd say they at least told this well for someone who had intense depression before.

All in all, it's a lot to take in because of the way the narrative expects you to remember all the expansions you done (hint hint: Ishikawa's reminder), and most people can't fully fathom such despair without experiencing the problem themselves first hand. Our journey was mostly smooth, full of hope & resolve because of those who paved the way before (Venat & to a lesser extent, the Scions) to ensure those who come after can still exist. If Venat never came to our timeline, we would've lost everyone, with no chance of getting them back. If we had weaker emotions and start despairing at any point as we saw the scions meet their end because we didn't fortify our resolve, we would've immediately been killed off by Meteion's emotions from the getgo. Like... imagine if Haurchefant died, but instead of Edmont saying he understood, he cursed us. Imagine if we went to the Aitascope, and Haurchefant cursed us. Even for those who gave up their lives, they done so in a way that continued to inspire us.

We didn't disagree with Meteion saying that death will inevitably happen. Rather, the main takeaway here is that, our story is still a direct parallel to what Meteion's supposed end should feel. We, be our actions, our emotions, and our feelings, will shape how our lives will end. Even if the end will eventually come to all scions, we can fight for when it will happen, because we have the resolve to continue trying and continue on, whether we are happy or sad. That's why the Scions who gave up their lives didn't have any doubts of sacrificing themselves when their time had to come pave a road forward, and their emotions were no weaker than the emotions of Civilizations in full despair. We would have carried the fight on regardless because of the buildup of emotions we had. The Scions coming back was just the cherry on top.

[Satarn]

The people, with their vast knowledge, apparently did not find the solution to stopping the world's demise, so they, and their immortal descendants will experience the end with them, which denounces their whole goal of working towards immortality.

The problem with the Ea's "death of the universe" conundrum, is that it's trying to base itself on our world's science and laws while in a setting that works under completely different rules, without the writers properly considering how those rules change the outcome.

The space is expanding and one day the stars will be too far from the planets to give them any life-supporting heat? So? Who gives a crap? Literally just in this expansion we have seen two artificial suns made by two different groups of people, through different means. Just make some of those with magic, heck, summon a giant sun-primal that follows the planet even when the space expands. You're worried about atmosphere or gravity? Have you seen Ultima Thule? Or even just the moon? Is weather an issue for you? Don't worry, Sharlayans can just make that too.

Real-life issues don't really apply when you have this kind of magic and technology and it's silly to pretend it does, just to make it more "realistic" and "hit close to home" to provoke a more emotional response form people. In the end it breaks the suspension of disbelief, makes the characters look like idiots (although Enwalker has really felt like characters taking stupid pills for the entire storyline) and ultimately falls flat.

Speaking of stupid pills - I wonder how the heck was leaving Eatheris supposed to save people from The Final Days. If anything it would just make them even more exposed to Meteia and their dynamis-based powers, given how most of the universe isn't actually as dense in aether as The Star. Good plan.

[AnotherPerson]

The problem with the Ea's "death of the universe" conundrum, is that it's trying to base itself on our world's science and laws while in a setting that works under completely different rules, without the writers properly considering how those rules change the outcome.

The space is expanding and one day the stars will be too far from the planets to give them any life-supporting heat? So? Who gives a crap? Literally just in this expansion we have seen two artificial suns made by two different groups of people, through different means. Just make some of those with magic, heck, summon a giant sun-primal that follows the planet even when the space expands. You're worried about atmosphere or gravity? Have you seen Ultima Thule? Or even just the moon? Is weather an issue for you? Don't worry, Sharlayans can just make that too.

Real-life issues don't really apply when you have this kind of magic and technology and it's silly to pretend it does, just to make it more "realistic" and "hit close to home" to provoke a more emotional response form people. In the end it breaks the suspension of disbelief, makes the characters look like idiots (although Enwalker has really felt like characters taking stupid pills for the entire storyline) and ultimately falls flat.

Speaking of stupid pills - I wonder how the heck was leaving Eatheris supposed to save people from The Final Days. If anything it would just make them even more exposed to Meteia and their dynamis-based powers, given how most of the universe isn't actually as dense in aether as The Star. Good plan.

I think that's the point the whole story in Ea is trying to make. We're able to use Aether and we can find ways to combat this that makes sense in our own understanding. We can't understand specifically why it wouldn't work, as told by Ea with our current knowledge. Besides, they don't need weather since they function without corporeal bodies. That implies the problem extends beyond the problem of what aether can naturally change.

Also you have to remember, Hyadelyn doesn't know the full extent of the ability of Meteion after she left Etheriys. She only knows Meteion was going to doom Etheriys, so she tries to setup life elsewhere as a contingency plan. We only know Metetion traveled to a lot of stars, not the full extent of the world. She doesn't know that this was the last Bastion of the world - as told by Midgardsomr after he arrived and the world has already been sundered.

Ah yes, destroying the world of your people because you’re bereft of hope for them is paving the way. Such a hero such a hero. Guess the moral of this story is dont have hope in your family and friends, instead place all of your hope in people(someone) youve just met. Oh and also its okay to sacrifice yourself since apparently you'll just be brought back 10 minutes later with the power of friendship! Deep story.

Venat specifically said she knew she was a monster. She also stated she would've never sundered her people unless she saw no other way to proceed - which means she hasn't found a solution even after we left in the circumstances following our departure. For Venat, it's a worse death to rely on Zodiark and attempt to Forestall the Final Days and then wait for the eventual end than it is to find a way forward and continue living. After all, Zodiark only accounts for half the population of the Ancients in Etheriys (not the entire universe), and Dynamis is in a much greater amount than what Zodiark can ever achieve with Aether.

Hyadelyn was no saint, and we can see that when she subjected people to suffer. However, following the sundering, if it wasn't for her, we would've been dead regardless by the Ascian's rejoinings. Take it what you will. A hero isn't a hero to everyone, but only to the ones they are saving - and that was heavily explained through the viewpoints of Emet, Elidibius, and the WoL / Scions in ShB. Venat may not have saved the ancients, but she did her duty as an Ancient to continue & improve life on the Star, which was the ancient's first and foremost goal, even though the means were an extreme way to get the result.

At the same time, you were already entrusted the legacy to safeguard the future of the Star by Emet (which people somehow forget). The ones already aware of the future have already accepted their end at the finale of Ktisis Hyperboreia and left it up to you to solve the problem of the Final Days. In that regard, the ones who are about to forget everything fully accept the outcome and pass on the responsibility to you to figure out.

[Lauront]

Endwalker is pretty confusing for me, emotional wise. By all means, I'm a pretty sentimental person. You give me good cutscene with emotional music, and I'll be hooked. Always has been since ARR; when we escape uldah, fight nidhogg in 3.3, liberating doma, having the alliance soldiers open our way to Ala mhigo castle, fighting emet and elidibus, and many more.

And yet... I rarely feel that way when playing endwalker. The climax of my experience is near the end of elpis, when we can't save the Ancients again. Second in place is when we meet emet and hythlodaeus in ultima Thule. Other than that, honestly not much. Theoretically, I should be feeling something when final days hit thavnair, or when the scion sacrifice themselves (though I can say enjoy Garlemald very much). But I didn't.

I guess it's due to how I disagree with a lot of things the game try to do/tell us. Too much comedy, final days feels less threatening than flood of light, zodiark get so little time screen, time travel being stupid, lopporit, I very much disagree with venat action and motivation, and dynamis being more deus ex machina than aether.

Fortunately Zenos see the memo that he's boring, and will always be, and has the decency to remove himself for most part of the game.

I thought it was a rather poor comedy at times. Endsinger fight felt like a joke, especially the final phase - all that build up... for that. Way too melodramatic. Too many themes hammered repeatedly at various points, and at the same time often inconsistent and, when you think about it, not really analogous to other situations. No matter how many times they try hammer the same trite point about bringing back the "dead", it does not in the least affect my view of releasing the souls caught in a limbo in Zodiark. The setting's metaphysics make the point it is trying to push seem like nothing but a caprice. And of course you just bring back the Scions, so it's a case of "rules for thee but not for me". The message is supposed to be one of hope but it ends up just being a case of if you're wrapped in several layers of plot armour, you'll be fine.

[SieyaM]

Endwalker is pretty confusing for me, emotional wise. By all means, I'm a pretty sentimental person. You give me good cutscene with emotional music, and I'll be hooked. Always has been since ARR; when we escape uldah, fight nidhogg in 3.3, liberating doma, having the alliance soldiers open our way to Ala mhigo castle, fighting emet and elidibus, and many more.

And yet... I rarely feel that way when playing endwalker. The climax of my experience is near the end of elpis, when we can't save the Ancients again. Second in place is when we meet emet and hythlodaeus in ultima Thule. Other than that, honestly not much. Theoretically, I should be feeling something when final days hit thavnair, or when the scion sacrifice themselves (though I can say enjoy Garlemald very much). But I didn't.

I guess it's due to how I disagree with a lot of things the game try to do/tell us. Too much comedy, final days feels less threatening than flood of light, zodiark get so little time screen, time travel being stupid, lopporit, I very much disagree with venat action and motivation, and dynamis being more deus ex machina than aether.

Fortunately Zenos see the memo that he's boring, and will always be, and has the decency to remove himself for most part of the game.

The final days would have probably hit much stronger if we were sent back to one of the ARR zones to see it. Those places have a much stronger connection with most players since we have spent much more time there and the NPCs in those places have played a part in this story for a long time. As it is, having the final days really only come to Thavnair, a place we have been in just for a short bit and with all new characters that we hardly know, it just didn't really hit that hard.