DRK feels weak

[DarkDredgen]

Yeah... despite "feeling weak" and jank especially in dungeons, its looking to be one of the stronger is not strongest tank for raids and trials, dps and overall mitigation. Dunno what else to say, if you want to feel beastly in the casual content as of now War is supreme.

Being good in a small niche is great and all...but what about the other like 80% of the content in FFXIV? xD

That seems to be the general consensus from what I am reading. I'm certainly not saying it is broken or unplayable etc because it is far from it, I just feel it needs to be looked at again so it engages with the majority of content to a similar level as the rest of the tanks.

Instead of the current 'does marginally better in high end content but is noticeably less efficient in all other content'

It feels like DRK is only relevant due to TBN now, hence why it excels in low damage scenarios as raids etc

In high damage scenarios i find it struggles and is significantly less independent than other tanks.

I dont think it needs a lot added for it to catch up, but for sure feels lacking.

[Luin]

Being good in a small niche is great and all...but what about the other like 80% of the content in FFXIV? xD

The battle system is balanced around full party content and always has been.

Outside of the role actions, WAR has Vengeance, Bloodwhetting, and Shake it Off

You forgot Thrill (effectively 20% mitigation). Most Endwalker double pulls are easily handled with just Thrill+Shake+Equil and 1 or 2 Bloodwhetting casts. WAR has the most defensives.

people don't realize WARs are taking huge spike damage.

What? They have Holmgang - an objectively superior invuln to Living Dead.

Like say WAR has Vengeance+Whet, and WAR has Corundum from cotank, that's 59% mitigation. Add Thrill, 20% increase in max HP, that's almost a TBN itself (plus 400p shield from Whet). How is that spike damage compared to any other tank?

Compare to DRK. Let's say ShadowWall+TBN+Oblation+Corundum. This is 54% mitigation, plus 25% shield. Yes, TBN is the most potent mitigation for singlehit busters, but busters are not balanced around TBN. They're survivable with any tank comp.

[pastry777]

The battle system is balanced around full party content and always has been.


You forgot Thrill (effectively 20% mitigation). Most Endwalker double pulls are easily handled with just Thrill+Shake+Equil and 1 or 2 Bloodwhetting casts. WAR has the most defensives.



What? They have Holmgang - an objectively superior invuln to Living Dead.

Like say WAR has Vengeance+Whet, and WAR has Corundum from cotank, that's 59% mitigation. Add Thrill, 20% increase in max HP, that's almost a TBN itself (plus 400p shield from Whet). How is that spike damage compared to any other tank?

Compare to DRK. Let's say ShadowWall+TBN+Oblation+Corundum. This is 54% mitigation, plus 25% shield. Yes, TBN is the most potent mitigation for singlehit busters, but busters are not balanced around TBN. They're survivable with any tank comp.

First of all, I didn't forget Thrill because Thrill is most definitely not mitigation. You're confusing the term mitigation with something else entirely. It's not reducing any damage that is being inflicted to your health pool. It increases the WAR's maximum HP by 20% and heals it for the same amount in addition to providing 20% healing bonus from healing actions. You're still taking 100% of the incoming damage. There's a reason why WARs double health pool in 2.0 got scrapped; they couldn't take hits. Sure a WAR can handle pulls with Thrill + Shake + Equil + Bloodwhetting, but it doesn't change that fact that they are taking insane amounts of damage. WAR doesn't have the most defensives, they have the most/best sustain out of the tanks.

Mitigation = Incoming damage reduction
Mitigation =/= Self-Sustain
Spike Damage = Massive amount of damage dealt over a very short period of time.

Secondly, never have I argued that Living Dead was better than Holmgang (vice versa), and I can't see the association between this and what you quoted ("people don't realize WARs are taking huge spike damage.").

[pastry777]

My arguments were based on Dungeon settings (due to OP's stance as a casual player) in which WAR (along with PLD) do take insane amounts of spike damage since they can exhaust their mitigation resources much sooner than DRK and GNB. Since you're bringing up scenarios with tank compositions, lets put some HP and damage to your mitigation numbers. To make it simple, lets round the 47,000 damage I stated in my original response to 50,000 with a health pool of 72,000 as that's an estimate of where tanks are at currently at unbuffed. I'll even add in the 0.2% for WAR (72144).

WAR -> Vengeance + Bloodwhetting + Heart of Corundum from GNB = 59% after scaling. 50,000 - 59% = 20,500 --> 20,500 - 8% shield (400 potency shield = approximately 5300-5800 at ilvl 578 - I'll use the highest value) = 14,700 damage that's deducted from health pool after mitigations. You can add Thrill to this and it's not going to change the fact that more damage is taken because Thrill has 0 value when it comes to soaking or reducing incoming damage.

DRK - > Shadow Wall + Oblation + Heart of Corundum = 54% after scaling. 50,000 - 54% = 23,000 --> 23,000 - 25% shield (18,000) = 5,000 damage that's deducted from health pool after mitigations.

[Duskane]

My arguments were based on Dungeon settings (due to OP's stance as a casual player) in which WAR (along with PLD) do take insane amounts of spike damage since they can exhaust their mitigation resources much sooner than DRK and GNB. Since you're bringing up scenarios with tank compositions, lets put some HP and damage to your mitigation numbers. To make it simple, lets round the 47,000 damage I stated in my original response to 50,000 with a health pool of 72,000 as that's an estimate of where tanks are at currently at unbuffed. I'll even add in the 0.2% for WAR (72144).

WAR -> Vengeance + Bloodwhetting + Heart of Corundum from GNB = 59% after scaling. 50,000 - 59% = 20,500 --> 20,500 - 8% shield (400 potency shield = approximately 5300-5800 at ilvl 578 - I'll use the highest value) = 14,700 damage that's deducted from health pool after mitigations. You can add Thrill to this and it's not going to change the fact that more damage is taken because Thrill has 0 value when it comes to soaking or reducing incoming damage.

DRK - > Shadow Wall + Oblation + Heart of Corundum = 54% after scaling. 50,000 - 54% = 23,000 --> 23,000 - 25% shield (18,000) = 5,000 damage that's deducted from health pool after mitigations.

enemies damage to tanks is not % so thrill of war is extra mitigation and because your HP is higher so is your self healing so you end up being harder to kill regardless
it is effectively the same when tank stance had there own effects Warriors was granted more HP while DRK and PLD were granted more defense and it was the same