Can we please get rid of square and circle arenas for every trials and 8 men raids?

[Shurrikhan]

Except using your particular analogy OP has asked for a drink with a crunchy texture, more substance and meat.

That might be the case if he had asked for one specific thing else, rather than just that we not be limited solely to milk tea.

All of the aspects they are asking for are already present in Alliance raids.

Cool, then maybe we could actually make a form of content that is challenging by way of more than just having afkers, the badly inebriated, or new people who can't follow their parties, and not insist on barely reskinned "each party to their third of the room to do identical but irrespective/independent mechanics".

Many of which ARE challenging content.

Not by way of their mechanics, they sure aren't.

OP is not even 60 and has not even reached some of the raids that ARE reasonably challenging and in the environments they're asking for

OP is a savage raider. Maybe don't assume that the class listed here, especially when the website so often bugs out and fails to update one's choice of character, is the highest level someone has.

the Ivalice raids are most definitely NOT steamrollable

Odd. They've been steamrolled with scarcely ever a death the last... dozen or so times I've got them on roulette.

Not to mention that they have ONLY posted comparisons to WoW

You realize that if anyone has prior experience from another tab-target MMO's raid scene, it's almost certainly going to be WoW, right? Given its combat differences and lack of trinity, GW2 isn't going to be comparable. No action MMORPG is going to be comparable. ESO, due to its imbalance, isn't going to be relevant. Rift, due to its customization, isn't going to be comparable. Etc., etc.

Could we please drop the "If there's a WoW example, the OP must be trolling"? The examples were plenty relevant, noting places that, to the OP, generated a larger sense of cohesive identity for the serious content, in much the way that "Void Ark" isn't just "V1", "V2", "V3", and "V4" while not depending on sheer player count for at best middling difficulty.

suggesting that FFXIV should cater to unhealthy playstyles and straight up copy WoWs latest expansion just because.

Quote the part of the OP that said this. They merely gave examples of what they consider "actual raid environments" and asked for some variety in boss arenas and for a larger context by which to give identity to a raid tier as a whole. (Granted, such were immediately ignored because they came from WoW just so one could immediately ask "What do you mean by rEaL rAid enVironMents?")

But I'm surprised, if Alliance Raids already so well provide what the OP is asking for, that you can put up with their "unhealthy" and WoW-copy playstyles.

[Krotoan]

That might be the case if he had asked for one specific thing else, rather than just that we not be limited solely to milk tea.

Read their other responses.

Cool, then maybe we could actually make a form of content that is challenging by way of more than just having afkers, the badly inebriated, or new people who can't follow their parties, and not insist on barely reskinned "each party to their third of the room to do identical but irrespective/independent mechanics".

such as? All the OP has asked for was things "like WoW has", which per my experience with 7 years of WoW was very pretty and environmental for sure (I liked Molten Core) but basically corridors of trash followed by an arena with a big guy in it who you do the mechanics to in a certain amount of time and correctly or wipe.

Not by way of their mechanics, they sure aren't.

Like I said to the other guy, I'm sure they're easy to you. To many they are challenging and concessions can be made to MAKE them challenging.

OP is a savage raider. Maybe don't assume that the class listed here, especially when the website so often bugs out and fails to update one's choice of character, is the highest level someone has.

OP by their admission
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...free-game-time

started less than a month ago (or they're lying) and this is all their jobs:



They haven't even scratched 60 content. There is another character with the EXACT SAME NAME on another data center. Perhaps these are the parses people are looking at. Just checked, that other characters logs are from June. They aren't the same person.

Odd. They've been steamrolled with scarcely ever a death the last... dozen or so times I've got them on roulette.

Congrats. The last 4 Rabanastre runs I had this past week all had 2 or more wipes and every single alliance had several dead people even when passed.

You realize that if anyone has prior experience from another tab-target MMO's raid scene, it's almost certainly going to be WoW, right? Given its combat differences and lack of trinity, GW2 isn't going to be comparable. No action MMORPG is going to be comparable. ESO, due to its imbalance, isn't going to be relevant. Rift, due to its customization, isn't going to be comparable. Etc., etc.

I urge you, again, to actually look at their postings. With such hits as "Yoshi P says we should be able to stop playing and that's harmful to the game".

Could we please drop the "If there's a WoW example, the OP must be trolling"? The examples were plenty relevant, noting places that, to the OP, generated a larger sense of cohesive identity for the serious content, in much the way that "Void Ark" isn't just "V1", "V2", "V3", and "V4" while not depending on sheer player count for at best middling difficulty.

Read.. their.. posts. Tell me those aren't instigating, hyperbolic, and facetious with a straight face.

Quote the part of the OP that said this. They merely gave examples of what they consider "actual raid environments" and asked for some variety in boss arenas and for a larger context by which to give identity to a raid tier as a whole. (Granted, such were immediately ignored because they came from WoW just so one could immediately ask "What do you mean by rEaL rAid enVironMents?")

Post history.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...aging-to-FFXIV

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...40#post5773540

And asking for clarification besides "what WoW has done" as in "what actual elements of it do you think make a "real raid environment" is a valid question.

But I'm surprised, if Alliance Raids already so well provide what the OP is asking for, that you can put up with their "unhealthy" and WoW-copy playstyles.

Alliance raids apply to the scant details they've given, which is why I referred to them.

[Shurrikhan]

...

Admittedly, I didn't check their data center (servers don't update particularly quickly) when quick-checking their logs. My mistake.

My issue is that you're letting the poster completely decide the validity of a given vein of complaint, despite it being held by others (many of whom have nothing to do with, say, WoW), giving us such classics as "Optional further difficulty for dungeons?! Go back to WoW!"

Such allows trolls to completely shut down areas of discussion, often despite their being topics of interest since the game's re-release.

[Krotoan]

Admittedly, I didn't check their data center (servers don't update particularly quickly) when quick-checking their logs. My mistake.

In the future please note that I do more than glance at someone's "main class" in their header before I make a call like "they have not done this content yet".

My issue is that you're letting the poster completely decide the validity of a given vein of complaint, despite it being held by others (many of whom have nothing to do with, say, WoW), giving us such classics as "Optional further difficulty for dungeons?! Go back to WoW!"

My initial response is entirely in good faith. I was asking for clarification. Had I not noticed it was that particular poster I would have continued in good faith to figure out exactly what was lacking. However this PARTICULAR poster isn't interested in bettering the game, just instigating. If someone else wants to continue the actual discussion of what is lacking, by all means. I will not stand in their way.

I don't see myself telling anyone who has a valid criticism to "go back to WoW", just asking questions as to what exactly is the current content lacking along with suggestions and pointing to content that has what they're asking for.

Such allows trolls to completely shut down areas of discussion, often despite their being topics of interest since the game's re-release.

Discussions can be had in troll threads, but maybe should be continued in their own threads in the interest of separating them from trash.

[Shurrikhan]

...

Alright, that is totally fair. I'm sorry for speaking out of turn. (Especially in regard to their participation in real content; I should have checked Lodestone first, not FFLogs, and better done my due diligence.)

Hopefully this discussion will arise again at some point without being soured by a troll poster.