*Spoilers* Anyone feel joining Emet would have been better

[MikkoAkure]

I don’t think it’s any more wild than people saying the ancients would continue to keep sacrificing and sacrificing when there’s little evidence of that.

Zodiark is a primal. It's summoners are tempered. It's not as much of a reach as saying that "everyone left over is the dregs of society".

Pre-Endwalker I was suspicious of Zodiark and the Ascians intentions since our only metric for primals were the aether hungry, twisted beings we had put down before. Ramuh was different, but the Ascians themselves were surprised of Ramuh's actions so I don't think they believed primals could work that way. So I thought among other possibilities that there was a possibility they might end the same as it did for the Beastmen, but now I don't think so because the presented facts don't support that opinion as much. It still doesn't change my opinion that their society would have changed focus to their god based on how the Ascians act and devote themselves to their "one true god".

The idea that the 25% left are "chaff" is wild supposition and doesn't have any connection to existing lore unless you want to provide it.

[Anvaire]

Zodiark is a primal. It's summoners are tempered. It's not as much of a reach as saying that "everyone left over is the dregs of society".

I think Emet selch refered to them as "Primals after a fashion" and the end of Endwalker states it is intention of the current summoning method that makes them temper people. Zodiark ws a product of creation magic and if he did temper those that summoned it I think it was more about affecting the polarity of their aether over making them into mindless servants who would worship him. I think the Ascians devotion to Zodiark is more about gratitude to the souls within him than for him being "one true god" Its also likely that the story in ARR wasnt fleshed out enough to be considered wholly canon to endwalker. So Lahabrea's monologue about ZOdiark shouldnt really be taken as gospell. Especially since the milenias of body hopping had turned him in a deranged creature. I think Emet even mentions that Lahabrea burned his life by the body hopping while emet just took a body, lived its lifespan and then took another.

[Veloran]

Zodiark is a primal. It's summoners are tempered.

Don't they specifically say this expansion that Hydaelyn and Zodiark aren't like modern Primals and can't temper people?

[MikkoAkure]

Don't they specifically say this expansion that Hydaelyn and Zodiark aren't like modern Primals and can't temper people?

Not quite. The Lopporits say there will be a "tug" because of the sheer amount of aether, which means there's at least an effect and I think that can be associated to their different behavior before the summonings and how we know them in the modern sense. Then there's Emet-Selch who outright says he's tempered, using that exact word.

[Veloran]

Not quite. The Lopporits say there will be a "tug" because of the sheer amount of aether, which means there's at least an effect and I think that can be associated to their different behavior before the summonings and how we know them in the modern sense. Then there's Emet-Selch who outright says he's tempered, using that exact word.

In other words, the writers wanted to try to get Hydaelyn off the hook despite the fact that they had already wrote themselves into a corner, so they gave a poor and vague explanation that we can deduce nothing from either way.

[MikkoAkure]

In other words, the writers wanted to try to get Hydaelyn off the hook despite the fact that they had already wrote themselves into a corner, so they gave a poor and vague explanation that we can deduce nothing from either way.

If you want to look at it at that angle, sure but the way I see it:

Emet-Selch, who has nothing to hide: "Yeah I'm tempered, what of it?"
Mascot comedic-relief character created by Venat, who hides a lot: "Oh, it's just a tug because it's a lot of aether all at once."

Both can be true, but I feel like Emet-Selch's truth is a bit more than the Lopporits'.

Unless the writers come out and say "we did a retcon" I trust a character who himself has been affected to describe his own affliction than a bunny rabbit on the moon. The tempering is not the same and not as powerful as that which people tempered by tampered primals go through, but they're tempered nonetheless. The limit of it in my opinion seems to be as a very strong suggestion to keep trying to bring him back. But they also praise him as a god, which is traditional tempering and is a bit worrying. That's not even limited to Lahabrea either, all of the Ascians do it together when we see them gather for the first time, Nabriales does it as well when we fight him. Part of that certainly can be attributed to Him saving their people, but considering they of all people should know better than that and know he's not a god and just another complex creation is the scary part.

The timing definitely seems weird though considering that information comes out after talking to Crystal Mom, but it still stands that a character in the previous expansion, written presumably under the same writing director, said clearly in the text that the Ascians are tempered.