Concern for onboarding experience of new players

[juiceboxed]

Does that mean pre-EW content should be tuned to punish players if they make mistakes? I couldn't disagree with this idea more. MSQ dungeons, trials, and raids should in no way punish players for making mistakes. MSQ content should be tuned so that all comers are able to progress through it without wanting to quit the game over it.

XIV has become this successful for being what it is, not for trying to be what it's not. People are coming in droves, are enjoying their experience here, and are staying. I can't tell when you started the game so I don't know if you've enjoyed the game for a long time or are a recent comer from other games and are playing XIV to have an MMO to play that's not the game(s) you left. From what you've said, my impression is you're the latter, and I say this with zero malice; if the main gameplay focus of XIV isn't to your taste, perhaps it would be best to find a different game that does suit your tastes. I've joined and left multiple MMOs over the years for this reason and have been a happier gamer because of it.

I don't want people to quit the game over difficulty either. I want people to slowly learn mechanics as they go through the game and understand what is safe and what isn't, and be punished for standing in bad things... because they kinda don't nearly as much since EW. This is what my friends told me, they could just cruise control through. I'm honestly willing to go with easy but not trivial for the game difficulty (it is currently trivial in MSQ) because different people's challenges. I'm glad you've tried the game out over thanksgiving, but are you sure it reflects the same after EW?

If I didn't love this game, I wouldn't be making a forum post about how it could be better. I'm trying to invite friends to play and they are turned off by the onboarding experience, mostly pacing now that another poster brought it up though. Anyway, improving the game is the whole point of the thread (I have all DoL and DoH maxed, everything above 70, and 5 90 combat jobs).

[Illmaeran]

I don't want people to quit the game over difficulty either. I want people to slowly learn mechanics as they go through the game and understand what is safe and what isn't, and be punished for standing in bad things... because they kinda don't nearly as much since EW. This is what my friends told me, they could just cruise control through. I'm honestly willing to go with easy but not trivial for the game difficulty (it is currently trivial in MSQ) because different people's challenges. I'm glad you've tried the game out over thanksgiving, but are you sure it reflects the same after EW?

If I didn't love this game, I wouldn't be making a forum post about how it could be better. I'm trying to invite friends to play and they are turned off by the onboarding experience, mostly pacing now that another poster brought it up though. Anyway, improving the game is the whole point of the thread (I have all DoL and DoH maxed, everything above 70, and 5 90 combat jobs).

1. If I'm understanding what your first paragraph is saying correctly, you're wanting combat mechanics to be more impactful, yes? When I read punishing, it brings to mind circumstances that cause people pain or severe displeasure. I can agree that increasing the damage of things like AoEs to make them something players notice and realize they have to avoid would be a good thing. "Punishing" players is going too far. People should not experience severe displeasure when progressing through the core of the game.

Case in point: I was very sick and going through harsh medical treatment when Stormblood released. Since I was home a lot I was playing a lot of XIV until the solo Nadaam duty. I simply could not get past it no matter what I did. The extreme frustration of the encounter and severe displeasure at being unable to progress through the MSQ due to a duty caused me to quit the game until a couple months before Shadowbringers launched.

We also have to consider the balance between ease of access, speed of progression, and Roulettes. I'd suggest that the majority of people progressing through MSQ duties are doing so with the help of higher level people running Roulettes. I know when I queue for a Roulette I want to get through it as quickly as I can, grab the tomes and move on. I don't want to be stuck in something like the Ivalice raids that take a long time and require actual brain power to get through. Including ease of access and speed of progression through the MSQ; making MSQ duties "punishing" will only serve to discourage first-time players and irritate people doing Roulettes. Anything that adds to first-time players' frustration and slows progress through the MSQ should be avoided. Make mechanics more impactful so players can't just stand in them without consequence, but don't make them so difficult that small mistakes cause issues.

Correllary to that: NON-MSQ duties could be more challenging, but that's also why we have Hard versions of them.

I haven't played my alt since EW dropped so I can't speak to how playing her through the MSQ would be different post-EW. I have played low-level jobs on this character (my main) and found those experiences to be similar to what I had on my alt in ARR dungeons.

I agree, the pacing can be *horrendous* at times.

[juiceboxed]

1. If I'm understanding what your first paragraph is saying correctly, you're wanting combat mechanics to be more impactful, yes? When I read punishing, it brings to mind circumstances that cause people pain or severe displeasure. I can agree that increasing the damage of things like AoEs to make them something players notice and realize they have to avoid would be a good thing. "Punishing" players is going too far. People should not experience severe displeasure when progressing through the core of the game.

Case in point: I was very sick and going through harsh medical treatment when Stormblood released. Since I was home a lot I was playing a lot of XIV until the solo Nadaam duty. I simply could not get past it no matter what I did. The extreme frustration of the encounter and severe displeasure at being unable to progress through the MSQ due to a duty caused me to quit the game until a couple months before Shadowbringers launched.

We also have to consider the balance between ease of access, speed of progression, and Roulettes. I'd suggest that the majority of people progressing through MSQ duties are doing so with the help of higher level people running Roulettes. I know when I queue for a Roulette I want to get through it as quickly as I can, grab the tomes and move on. I don't want to be stuck in something like the Ivalice raids that take a long time and require actual brain power to get through. Including ease of access and speed of progression through the MSQ; making MSQ duties "punishing" will only serve to discourage first-time players and irritate people doing Roulettes. Anything that adds to first-time players' frustration and slows progress through the MSQ should be avoided. Make mechanics more impactful so players can't just stand in them without consequence, but don't make them so difficult that small mistakes cause issues.

Correllary to that: NON-MSQ duties could be more challenging, but that's also why we have Hard versions of them.

I haven't played my alt since EW dropped so I can't speak to how playing her through the MSQ would be different post-EW. I have played low-level jobs on this character (my main) and found those experiences to be similar to what I had on my alt in ARR dungeons.

I agree, the pacing can be *horrendous* at times.

It appears we agree completely then, despite early misunderstanding. When I say punishing, I mean it needs to make you react a little more than veg out. That's about it, impactfulness.

[Illmaeran]

It appears we agree completely then, despite early misunderstanding. When I say punishing, I mean it needs to make you react a little more than veg out. That's about it, impactfulness.

Holy s$^#, two people on the internet were able to ask for and provide clarification that led them to better understanding and agreement after having an initial disagreement? Is it the Final Days?! Hurry, everyone, board the Ragnarok and fly away!!!!

:P

[juiceboxed]

Holy s$^#, two people on the internet were able to ask for and provide clarification that led them to better understanding and agreement after having an initial disagreement? Is it the Final Days?! Hurry, everyone, board the Ragnarok and fly away!!!!

:P

I really just want the game to be better, so naturally I will look for points we can agree on. Thanks for the conversation