Black Mage's quirky cross class abilities

[Xianghua]

I don't understand why you deny the DD part of BRD. Brd is not solely a support class, it's a class which has the option to pick between support and dd or any degree of it in between.

I'm not denying it. Whm has DD abilities to. As does War. But when they focus on other things. It hurts their dps. Will they be able to do decent damage? yes Will the be able to keep up with pure dd such as war/mnk/drg? No

It's not about what a Job can and can't do. Its about what the jobs main role is in the party and brd's main role is support not dps.

[KumaAkuma]

Just because they only get damage abilities, doesn't mean they'll do more damage.

[Xianghua]

Just because they only get damage abilities, doesn't mean they'll do more damage.

What kind of logic is that?

Ya cleary 2 jobs that's sole purpose is to do damage. Only 2 jobs that will have skills to increase their damage. 2 out of 3 jobs that will spent the entire fight doing damage. Be able to use more Auto attacks and weapon skills. Hit Faster and harder.
Are going to suck compared to a job that has no skills to increase it's own damage. has to run around the field to cast those buffs.

If a Brd is able to out dmg mnk/drg/blm then the job system is really messed up.

Edit: I'm not sure what you have done in this game or how much you know.

But go get 2 even matched archers. Have 1 use lnc's abilities. and the other use only its own and compare the dmg. Now do the same with plg and lnc. while that archer is still only using its own abilities.
I Seriously doubt that archer not using lnc abilities will get close to the others.

[KumaAkuma]

If a Brd is able to out dmg mnk/drg/blm then the job system is really messed up.

That's what I have been saying all this time. Brd will be able to do equal damage and have support abilities on top of that.

But go get 2 even matched archers. Have 1 use lnc's abilities. and the other use only its own and compare the dmg. Now do the same with plg and lnc. while that archer is still only using its own abilities.
I Seriously doubt that archer not using lnc abilities will get close to the others.

And that's why we use a parser and not go with just feelings. I'm not disagreeing with you that losing Invigorate and Keen Flurry are a damage loss. I'm saying the Arc damage is so high that even with taking the damage cut for missing those two abilities they will still be on par when it comes to doing damage.

[Xianghua]

That's what I have been saying all this time. Brd will be able to do equal damage and have support abilities on top of that.



And that's why we use a parser and not go with just feelings. I'm not disagreeing with you that losing Invigorate and Keen Flurry are a damage loss. I'm saying the Arc damage is so high that even with taking the damage cut for missing those two abilities they will still be on par when it comes to doing damage.

Archer damage is not higher then PGls atm. 1 Vs 1 Pgl will blow archer away. The only Reason Archer is favored for moogle is because its much easy to hit combo's. Same reason people favored lancer for Ifrit and now thm. not because its the strongest DD. But because it's the easiest.

[Inzoum]

But still... I'd gladly trade second wind and feather foot for cure, stoneskin and protect....

I understand your point, but then again you could stick to playing THM without activating the BLM job. From my understanding, you'll be able to function a lot better solo using base classes and their higher cross-class potential than from using Jobs. These are intended for party play where more specific roles become valuable. In a party as a BLM, you're not likely to have to worry about healing yourself, that responsibility goes to WHM, BRD, PLD jobs and other party members using base classes with healing/buffing spells equipped. If you opt for Black Mage, your role will shift to dealing high levels of damage with more powerful spells and abilities at your disposal, and your principal worry will be to manage the enmity generated by that, and avoid getting hit. Necrogenesis and Second Wind are good for last-minute recovery in case you accidentally grab too much hate and get hit, or if you get smacked by an AoE attack, but that's generally all you'll need. If you get hit enough to justify your need of Cure and Stoneskin as a BLM, well, I'd say you're doing it wrong.

Classes = Horizontal development (more cross-class flexibility, no focused improvements, but strength through variety and versatility)
Jobs = Vertical development (less cross-class flexibility, but highly focused improvements through exclusive abilities and gear)

Both have their situational uses, that's why you can toggle them on/off and aren't forced to use them. Give it a try first, I trust that they did a good job balancing it all.

Also... think of Rydia in Final Fantasy IV, she used to be able to use simple White and Black magic as well as simple summons as a child, but growing up she chose to abandon White magic in favour of more powerful Black magic. It makes sense to me that a full-fledged Black Mage wouldn't touch white magic with a six foot pole. I'm not surprised the BLM job is locked out of using CNJ spells

[Inzoum]

That's what I have been saying all this time. Brd will be able to do equal damage and have support abilities on top of that.

Don't forget that Jobs will also alter character stats. It's entirely possible that the BRD job with all its advantageous buffing abilities will have a lowered damage rating compared to ARC. The same way we can safely expect BLM to see its defense drop compared to THM.

[Tonkra]

i am wondering what people are going to do within the primal fights without sentinel? being limited to equip skills from just two specific classes...

Will people keep playing the mainclasses within these fights? and not the jobs?

i see that problem.

[fusional]

I don't understand why you deny the DD part of BRD. Brd is not solely a support class, it's a class which has the option to pick between support and dd or any degree of it in between.

while this is still in speculation phase, basically everything Xianghua is saying is dead on (theoretically). yes, bard can still DD and should still DD- but that is not their primary focus, and they likely will not have the top-end damage capabilities of other dps-focused jobs. a perfectly played bard should keep their songs up, support when useful/necessary, and maximize dps output otherwise.

that said- any bard choosing not to use their job-specific support abilities because they prefer to just faceroll dps can choose to stay the hell out of my raid parties. ffxiv's version of a melee rdm? {Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.}

[fusional]

Archer damage is not higher then PGls atm. 1 Vs 1 Pgl will blow archer away. The only Reason Archer is favored for moogle is because its much easy to hit combo's. Same reason people favored lancer for Ifrit and now thm. not because its the strongest DD. But because it's the easiest.

ehhhhh. they're about even. all of the dps classes are balanced pretty well right now. PGL only has a slight edge thanks to GLD (and MRD and King to a degree) having high physical defense and lower magic defense. (though archer can make up some of the ground here by equipping thunder or whatever nuke and spamming it on GLD in between barrage and quick nock)

also, while yes- archer is the primary choice for moogle because it lacks directional combos (and has the luxury of not having combos interrupted by aoe), calling it 'easier' is a bit misleading. right now archer has the highest skill ceiling of any dps class due primarily to the need to micromanage your own 'auto attack' in between keeping combos on cooldown, while every other class can focus on movement and combos alone- in spite of how annoying movement is in that fight.

an archer doing everything right should be almost perpetually animation locked, and i can assure you that makes the class much, much, much more difficult than you're accounting for.

so while archer may be the easiest to pick up for moogle, it's also certainly the hardest to master.

as far as 1v1, a better judge is on Ifrit- where the two classes (played correctly) should be about dead even in dps. though this again is likely a moot discussion after 1.21