Other MMOs and their History

[IdowhatIwant]

Tell me again how no one will try to get relic weapons again.

Relic weapons were completely optional. I did not have to do them to continue past the story. A <1% stat difference on 1 of my 12 gearslots.

"Ya'll", are the MMO player base that has lambasted players yearning for control and choice in their gaming experience and are keen on policing how anyone enjoys their game with 'git gud or get gone' mentality.

I never said anything about gid gud or get gone. I said Yoshi is cutting content in place of what the player base is asking for which is 90% bad and a large majority being related to glamour options and not related to combat. This is what is going to kill the game, and again it is the opposite of WoW ignoring what the player base is asking for. When you cut content for x players for y players you alienate x players but keep y players. What other players want in this game are not the same things I want, some of the things I want are not the same things others want, but there should be a middle ground were things are not cut out of the game. We used to get a new dungeon typically related to the story, and a revisit of an old dungeon with its own little side story.

We lost that in place of what exactly? The island adventure that was reworked 3 times in HW because it was bad. Some zones with more fates to grind? Mahjong a japenese game I don't understand but probably took very little effort to implement. The player base is going to cause FF's down fall for not calling out laziness and over praising aspects of this game.

[DinahDemiurge]

I have played guild wars 2 (alongside ffxiv, sometimes back and forth) for 8 years (and before that EQ, WoW, and FFXI) and honestly say that gw2 is just a much more special game. FFXIV is fine if you like linearity. But if you like true freedom and relaxation, gw2 is awesome. Especially as I get older. Nothing gets phased out because endgame focuses on horizontal rewarded mastery system (which is pretty awesome...there are currently 366 levels of mastery in gw2 which equates to a ton of content that is still being played to this day) and legendaries/collections/very robust achievement system with good rewards. Their super-server setup ensures there are always folks doing meta-events, and the gameplay is as complex as you want it to be. idk. I love FFXIV because I have been an FF fan forever, EW was fun and I will always come back to do content. But there's no real point in doing content more than once. Gear gets outdated, and rarely looks good enough to farm for glam, but I do enjoy learning savage/ex fights in FFXIV. I just need that other exploratory itch scratched from time to time and FF absolutely does not do that. I feel bad for new FFXIV players because SE does not incentivize doing old content at all so you don't really get the full experience. On a side tangent, I really like how there is nothing really immersion breaking in gw2. All the mounts make sense. Some of these mounts in ffxiv drive me bananas.

[strawberrycake]

I think it's a bad trait to consider your word is so important that you try and take over someone else's project/job and do it yourself. It's a rather entitled view and it doesn't take into account the long term plans that they have for the game that we are not privy to.

Please consider to let YoshiP do his job, and when the game no longer suits you, head to another.

I think it's also entitled to think that the view of people who have been apart of this genre long before XIV was a concept is worthless, and that Yoshi P knows and sees all.

It's one thing to consider him good at his job, but he's not above doing something wrong. Please consider that others PoV are helpful, and to not tell people to leave a game for wanting to help possibly improve it when it can be.

[Shibi]

I think it's also entitled to think that the view of people who have been apart of this genre long before XIV was a concept is worthless, and that Yoshi P knows and sees all.

It's one thing to consider him good at his job, but he's not above doing something wrong. Please consider that others PoV are helpful, and to not tell people to leave a game for wanting to help possibly improve it when it can be.

What do you think you know better than him? Considering he knows the future of the game unwritten and you don't?

[Alklios]

I never said anything about gid gud or get gone. I said Yoshi is cutting content in place of what the player base is asking for which is 90% bad and a large majority being related to glamour options and not related to combat. This is what is going to kill the game, and again it is the opposite of WoW ignoring what the player base is asking for. When you cut content for x players for y players you alienate x players but keep y players. What other players want in this game are not the same things I want, some of the things I want are not the same things others want, but there should be a middle ground were things are not cut out of the game. We used to get a new dungeon typically related to the story, and a revisit of an old dungeon with its own little side story.

We lost that in place of what exactly? The island adventure that was reworked 3 times in HW because it was bad. Some zones with more fates to grind? Mahjong a japenese game I don't understand but probably took very little effort to implement. The player base is going to cause FF's down fall for not calling out laziness and over praising aspects of this game.

I respect your hypothesis but we have only seen the game strengthen by not adhering to another MMO's formula.

Do be alleviated I regard the huge plethora of WoW fanboys that have lambasted 'casual' players for years on end, I do not mean to enrope you in such salty passions.

If there is a lack of content I am not seeing it, in 3 weeks we have full dungeons, a 50hour+ MSQ, 4 raids, an EX trial, and Savage to come right around the corner.

Hunt trains and FATE trains are being done with heavily active world content to save materia, gear alt classes, and obtain other goodies.

Content has come on multiple fronts in a large wave and this is how FF14 is. Players will occupy themselves raising other classes to help cover bases in Savage content to come.
Hoard materials and materia in prep for crafting.
The players are content. We have grown tired at the breakneck speed people playing 1 class burning through a fight and gear in day(s).
I think that Yoshida for some part does have the FF14 average player's wants where we are given a breathable pace to raise other classes and seek all our interests and pursuits instead of only doing the 1 track thing, raise 1 class get it as geared as possible. Do naught else.

[strawberrycake]

What do you think you know better than him? Considering he knows the future of the game unwritten and you don't?

I never said that, but to think he, someone whos made failed content, and actively wants ideas and feed back from her player base, is incapable of mistakes would be arrogant. He's even said himself multiple times he's makes mistakes. So instead of being a zealot, why not look and think outside the box and actually consider that Yoshi P and his team want the fans to be more open and welcoming, something else he's literally said before Ew released.

Because Ironically enough, this zealotry is part of how WoW got so bad, a lot of people blindly thinking everythings fine and ignoring people trying to be critical.

[Zaene]

@Dinah

What is it about GW2 that makes you say that and how could FFXIV bring that feeling, too?

On another topic, I have mixed feelings on Min/Max and MMOs. I'm sure min/maxing has been a thing ever since EQ but I think it wasn't mainstream until WOW raiding etc. is there some middle ground here though? The idea of your character being your own, and the decisions you make with it being only your business rings hollow in multi-player situations, yes, but is there no nuance?

[Alklios]

On another topic, I have mixed feelings on Min/Max and MMOs. I'm sure min/maxing has been a thing ever since EQ but I think it wasn't mainstream until WOW raiding etc. is there some middle ground here though? The idea of your character being your own, and the decisions you make with it being only your business rings hollow in multi-player situations, yes, but is there no nuance?

IMO it came down to individual player attitude. More often in the past I would see min/max ideas be shared and given freely among players to help improve play which helps the party progress. Choice was paramount to a positive gaming experiment, rather than template.
GW1 had the ability to literally *pick and add stats at will* anytime you were in a city.
WoW at least pre Legion Lootbox Land you had full control of mixxing stats in PvP and IIRC PvE alternatives to dungeon gear with then Valor points.

And a spec was not locked into 1 play back to WoW, WPvP, Raiding, Dungeon, WPvP all had different demands.

Min/Maxxing was always a positive experience save for those doomed to disdain math. AND now it is being used to bring down other players and stroke a fragile ego of some feeling of superiority for using someone else's data to improve their play and throw numbers at people.

FF14 in my experiences offers the second-to-top choice for Min/Maxxing via Forbidden Melding and having 5x 11 slots for stat tweaking, and multiple sources of gear to reroll base stats (Savage, Tome, Craftables).

Choice, freedom. I long for it in my childhood games.

It's all that matters now for that game. Flavor, soul, identity, choice, freedom, gone. Now there is only numbers, and they keep being inflated so high they're trimmed every other xpac now.

[Kaliesto]

There was a lot more MMOs back in the day besides those mentioned, they just were not as popular.

Usually a lot of them suffered the same problems, somehow FFXIV has been getting by some miracle so far.

[TristanX]

Back on December 2003, vanilla WoW was great on Illidan server. That was a PvP server. Alliance was good on those days.

-Help people when they get ganked.
-Look for fights on zones like Western and Eastern Plaguelands, Blackrock mountains, Neutral towns. There is a reason why people call one of the towns Gankgetzan.
-Southshore vs Tarren Mill ping pong. Guards from both towns chases offenders away.
-Crashed the server with 200+ players fighting over Lord Kazzak and Azuregos. Some occasions on 2 volunteers settle with mIRC due to stalemate for hours. Ended up with 1v1. Winner gets to kill the boss with no interruption.
-Organized 40 men raid for Alterac Valley smackdown. Smaller raid for Arathi Basin. Hated Warsong Gulch after doing it for hours.
-Nice to see the horde avoiding me as the first Alliance Priest Grand Marshal. Unless they bring 10+ players.
-Raided with 40 men on Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, Ahn Qiraj and Naxxramas. Cleared them before expansion. Getting myself in top guild (Saga) can get exhausting. 5 to 9 hours raid everyday.

Good old days.

Then you have Warhammer Online. The game got great system. Sadly, the game died to content draught.