Echo and Blessing of light, post endwalker retcon

[Theozilla]

Hmm I guess Krile herself didn't know what she was talking about when she said in the Eye of the Beholder, that whenever someone awakened to the Echo, Hydaelyn would give them a Crystal of Light... especially weird considering that was her field of study the Echo and hydaelyn...

That's not what Krile said though, Krile said that to aide people with the Echo (and therefore would also have the base form of the Blessing of Light), Hydaelyn will bequeath her strength to said individuals in the form of Crystals of Light. She did *not* say that when people awaken to the Echo that they automatically receive a Crystal of Light.
If Krile had been implying that that would have been illogical, as in those 3.1 scenes Krile had just stated that she has the Echo and Blessing of Light but doesn't have a Crystal of Light herself, hence why she's asking Matoya for her's.

[Rannie]

That's not what Krile said though, Krile said that to aide people with the Echo (and there would also have the base form of the Blessing of Light), Hydaelyn will bequeath her strength to said individuals in the form of Crystals of Light. She did *not* say that when people awaken to the Echo that they automatically receive a Crystal of Light.
If Krile had been implying that that would have been illogical, as in those 3.1 scenes Krile had just stated that she has the Echo and Blessing of Light but doesn't have a Crystal of Light herself, hence why she's asking Matoya for her's.

She's asking matoya the use of the previous ages crystal of light due to it being more powerful than the present ages crystals of light. And the exact words are

On the cusp of an Umbral Calamity, souls blessed with the power of the Echo invariably appear. To aid these her chosen warriors Hydaelyn bequeaths to each a sliver of her strength in the form of a Crystal of Light

Never once did she say she did not have a Crystal of Light btw. Neither did she say she had one but we can't say she does or doesn't it is Schroedingers Crystal of Light at this point.

[Theozilla]

She's asking matoya the use of the previous ages crystal of light due to it being more powerful than the present ages crystals of light. And the exact words are


Never once did she say she did not have a Crystal of Light btw.

Yeah, I heard/read those lines too. Those lines *are not* stating that said individuals who awaken to the Echo are automatically receiving a Crystal of Light when they awaken to the Echo though. Just that they are the ones who are aided by Hydaelyn and how said aide works in the form of a Crystal of Light.

And yes while Krile never literally stated she does not have her own Crystal of Light, the meaning (that she doesn't have one of her own) is conveyed by the fact that she is seeking out Matoya's Crystal of Light to use (and in the subsequent parts go the game Krile has never been shown to have one of her own either).

[Rannie]

Yeah, I heard/read those lines too. Those lines *are not* stating that said individuals who awaken to the Echo are automatically receiving a Crystal of Light when they awaken to the Echo though. Just that they are the ones who are aided by Hydaelyn and how said aide works in the form of a Crystal of Light.

And yes while Krile never literally stated she does not have her own Crystal of Light, the meaning (that she doesn't have one of her own) is conveyed by the fact that she is seeking out Matoya's Crystal of Light to use (and in the subsequent parts go the game Krile has never been shown to have one of her own either).

Ok here's a question then how does Krile know that the Crystal Eye is more powerful than the current ages Crystals of light? We never are shown that Minfillia has one and we also have never shown Krile ours. I'm asking this out of curiosity.

[JeanneOrnitier]

I don't see how the argument can be made that Resonant can't hear Hydaelyn. It gives you every single other power of the Echo, why would it not also let you hear her? Why would Resonant randomly just not have one of the Echo's capabilities when they have all the others?

[Veloran]

I don't see how the argument can be made that Resonant can't hear Hydaelyn. It gives you every single other power of the Echo, why would it not also let you hear her? Why would Resonant randomly just not have one of the Echo's capabilities when they have all the others?

Hearing Hydaelyn doesn't appear to strictly be a capability of the Echo, instead she forms a connection with people the moment they awaken it, at least insofar as messaging them. Ergo, because the Resonant is an artificial procedure and not an awakening, Hydaelyn doesn't message people when they get it. Neither Fordola or Zenos mention hearing her, for example.

[Iscah]

...the Blessing of Light has been shown to other properties in addition to the tempering protection (like the shielding from Ultima and/or general power boost it can provide be amplified by Crystals of Light).

I don't think the shielding from Ultima was part of the passive blessing at all, but an active intervention from Hydaelyn in that moment.

there isn’t any reason to assume that someone like Fordola (and Zenos and Misija) who have artificial Echoes would have also been granted the Blessing of Light, as they never mentioned ever hearing Hydaelyn’s voice and they never technically “awoke” the Echo but had it artificial created/implanted into them.

It is entirely possible that both effects are copied over together, especially if the distinction between the two phenomena is poorly defined and understood. It could just be a matter of copying all "formatting" placed on the soul.

It may be that if the blessing is copied over artificially, then the natural process of applying the blessing by hearing Hydaelyn's voice is skipped over and/or fulfilled by the copying process instead.

[Theozilla]

Ok here's a question then how does Krile know that the Crystal Eye is more powerful than the current ages Crystals of light? We never are shown that Minfillia has one and we also have never shown Krile ours. I'm asking this out of curiosity.

I mean Krile already knows that Matoya's Crystal Eye is more powerful than the current age's Crystals of Light before she has even seen it in 3.1, so it's reasonable to assume that in the course of her studies as a student of Sharlayan and Baldesion she's (and/or others before her) have been able to study Crystals of Light from various different ages, to develop that knowledge would require observations and studying of multiple Crystals of Light during the course of research, that's just how making conclusions from sample sizes works, a person needs more than two samples to do that.

I don't think the shielding from Ultima was part of the passive blessing at all, but an active intervention from Hydaelyn in that moment.

Oh I agree it wasn't a passive part of the Blessing of Light either, but having the Blessing of Light was a part of the process of Hydaeyn protecting us from Ultima.

It is entirely possible that both effects are copied over together, especially if the distinction between the two phenomena is poorly defined and understood. It could just be a matter of copying all "formatting" placed on the soul.

It may be that if the blessing is copied over artificially, then the natural process of applying the blessing by hearing Hydaelyn's voice is skipped over and/or fulfilled by the copying process instead.

I just don't see any indication of that being the case though. Especially when we know now the Blessing of Light is an applied magick, compared to the Echo being a potential inherent quality of souls themselves.

I feel like with how Krile, Arenvald, and Mikoto, who we all presume do not have Crystals of Light of their own (while still having the base form of the Blessing of Light to go along with their Echoes) unless/until stated otherwise in the future, we should presume that individuals with the artificial-Echo/Resonant do not have the Blessing of Light (be it artificial or real) unless/until stated otherwise in the future.

While it may feel unnecessarily redundant, I do believe the most consistent/accurate interpretation of the currently available information given by the game, is that both the Echo and The Blessing of Light each provided protection against tempering but in different manners, but with the Blessing of Light's tempering protection being more absolute/comprehensive than the Echo's.

[Conundrum]

So according to this new version of lore.

Bless of Light-Granted by Hydaelyn. Immunity to Tempering. Occasional miraculous shielding from massive enemy attacks like Ultima.

Echo-Granted to some when they have a vision of the Final Days. Ability to have visions of past/future. Translate all speech. Anticipate enemy attacks. Merge with other people that have the Echo. Merge with Primals. Shield self and others from Tempering.

Any edits or missing abilities?

I decided a long time ago that the Echo is like The Force, it does what the plot needs it to do at the time.

[ThorneDynasty]

It just kind feels like a huge omission over a multiple expansions that all these things happened off-screen without no one ever bringing them up. We get all the musings from Zenos about his relationship with WoL, his flashbacks to Amaurot and plans for Zodiark... but no mention that he heard Hydaelyn. And Arenvald and Krile and whoever have crystals of light that are never brought up or shown on screen? Yeah you can connect all the dots if you are generous enough and willing to draw squiggly enough lines. It just 100% feels like they first wrote the Echo as the factor and it would have work perfectly neatly if they kept it that way. Now when you look back at stuff you really have to squint.