*Spoilers* Anyone feel joining Emet would have been better

[Vyrerus]

No, the dialogue literally says it is a "happy accident". It says nothing about the former researcher then looking into the specifics of dynamis, or that they did anything other than create the flowers.

If we are operating entirely on what is said rather than what we think is implied, then there is no evidence that the former researcher was even aware of Dynamis, or by what mechanism the flowers change colours.

Hermes:"And though its existence had long been theorized we had no proof until the flower's serendipitous creation."

This is the important line. While the flower was created on accident, its mechanisms proved a theory that had already been postulated. Like the Hannish theorize about it as Akasa, the Ancients first theorized about it as Dynamis, and the Elpis flowers validated their theory.

By the act of creating them, an understanding of Dynamis was gained. Hermes uses this line and the line prior to explain how they discovered it. The flowers are tangible, and are an accidental prototype for all Entelechies. By studying the accident that lead to their creation a method to manipulate Dynamis was gained.

While it is not a direct line, it is fact based on how more advanced Entelechies, namely Meteion, came to be created on purpose. Then, note the underlined, We, in Hermes' statement. He was not the only one researching the theory, and he was also not the one who achieved the accidental breakthrough.

Again. There are more Ancients than just Hermes who know and understand Dynamis. Explicitly. They just aren't named.

[YianKutku]

Hermes:"And though its existence had long been theorized we had no proof until the flower's serendipitous creation."

This is the important line. While the flower was created on accident, its mechanisms proved a theory that had already been postulated. Like the Hannish theorize about it as Akasa, the Ancients first theorized about it as Dynamis, and the Elpis flowers validated their theory.

By the act of creating them, an understanding of Dynamis was gained. Hermes uses this line and the line prior to explain how they discovered it. The flowers are tangible, and are an accidental prototype for all Entelechies. By studying the accident that lead to their creation a method to manipulate Dynamis was gained.

While it is not a direct line, it is fact based on how more advanced Entelechies, namely Meteion, came to be created on purpose. Then, note the underlined, We, in Hermes' statement. He was not the only one researching the theory, and he was also not the one who achieved the accidental breakthrough.

Again. There are more Ancients than just Hermes who know and understand Dynamis. Explicitly. They just aren't named.

And neither Emet-Selch nor Hythlodaeus had ever heard of dynamis, nor entelechies. Venat had heard of it, but also admits that she knows very little about it apart from the basic concept.

Hythlodaeus assumes that the Elpis flower and the concept of dynamis had been submitted to the bureau before he joined it, but given he still had never heard of it, that means either Hythlodaeus was mistaken (and the Elpis flower was never submitted at all), or the bureau is so disorganized that such a "breakthrough" discovery was left to languish in obscurity. (My suspicion is that when dynamis was first observed, it was considered a trivial and unimportant matter, since according to the game literally no other person other than Hermes had ever managed to send a negative emotion to the Elpis flowers, until we came along. So the only colour changes noted were the different types of happiness, and any negative emotions were considered outliers and dismissed.)

Thus, the net effect is no matter how many other Ancients knew about dynamis, they were evidently forgotten, and so there is no way to contact them anyway. Which is the same result as no other Ancients knowing about dynamis that the group (Emet-Selch, Hythlodaeus, Venat) can consult about it other than Hermes. For the purposes of narrative, "only Hermes knows about dynamis" is true if the other people who know and understand dynamis (ie enough to create entelechies and influence dynamis) are all unavailable.

[Vyrerus]

And

Given that the Bureau of the Architect is constantly dealing with new creations, it's not unreasonable to think that older creations would be left unexamined by newcomers due to time constraints. It's not like a bureaucrat who signs on at a large depot or storehouse is going to be able to suddenly be able to account for everything that's ever been stored on the shelves there. They're too busy signing in triplicate the 800 concepts for new sharks and what not.

Through the course of this questline we also learn that the Convocation members are all specialists in different fields, so it's no surprise that an Emet-selch specialist doesn't know about a mysterious energy that almost no one has the means or desire to manipulate. Though it is a narrative surprise because he's a big deal to us, but it's ultimately an emotional conflation.

As for there being no way to contact the others who know about Dynamis... it's an idea that has no strength to stand under scrutiny. Elpis is a facility with rules and records. The Flower was created there, recorded there, and researched there. The names of the researchers would be in their records. The data on the flower would also be in their records. This takes place in the same expansion where our very scholarly compatriots have zero qualms about searching through a library containing more books than we can conceptualize, so Venat and our Ancient party shouldn't have qualms about attempting the same. The reality is that the narrative has to blinker itself and try to get us to pretend and believe with it that Hermes is all there is, so that the situation forced by the time loop appears even more inescapable. So it's, "For narrative purposes, we can't go into actual detail about the research methods, researchers, or specifics about Dynamis and its discovery. For narrative purposes we have to keep it vague, or this narrative comes apart at the seams." It's a weakness they could have easily dodged this by just having the lines from Hermes state that it's his personal discovery and the flower is his creation and he has yet to submit it to the bureau. Or something like that. Or that all his fellow Dynamis researchers gave themselves back to the star.

But the narrative didn't do that. It told us that there were other Dynamis researchers, but then didn't name them, and airplane spoon fed us lines about, "Only Hermes."

[YianKutku]

Given that the Bureau of the Architect is constantly dealing with new creations, it's not unreasonable to think that older creations would be left unexamined by newcomers due to time constraints. It's not like a bureaucrat who signs on at a large depot or storehouse is going to be able to suddenly be able to account for everything that's ever been stored on the shelves there. They're too busy signing in triplicate the 800 concepts for new sharks and what not.

Hythlodaeus is not a simple new recruit to the Bureau of the Architect. He is literally the chief of the Bureau of the Architect. If the bureau has no on-boarding process for the new head of the entire department, and there is no way to easily look up past records, then the bureau is a terribly-organized place that has even more unfortunate implications for the systems the Amaurotines have put into place to play god for the planet.

I'm actually being generous to Hythlodaeus here, in that I'm attributing his ignorance of Elpis flowers due to systemic issues, rather than because Hythlodaeus is a bad leader. If the only records anyone can conceivably find about the people who know about Elpis flowers and dynamis are buried deep within the Bureau of the Architect records, that Hythlodaeus never even considered looking through, then they might as well not be there at all.

Through the course of this questline we also learn that the Convocation members are all specialists in different fields, so it's no surprise that an Emet-selch specialist doesn't know about a mysterious energy that almost no one has the means or desire to manipulate. Though it is a narrative surprise because he's a big deal to us, but it's ultimately an emotional conflation.

Emet-Selch sounded very affronted that not only did he know nothing about dynamis, but nobody told him about it. If this is supposed to be Emet-Selch being rational, then that means he should have been told about it, either as a general member of the Convocation or in his capacity as Emet-Selch. And since he hasn't been told, that means there is nobody capable of telling him up until Hermes.

If this is supposed to be Emet-Selch being irrational, well, that answers the question in the OP as well, since this is not a person I would be willing to join, lest his petty grumpiness lead to even more dangerous situations.

As for there being no way to contact the others who know about Dynamis... it's an idea that has no strength to stand under scrutiny. Elpis is a facility with rules and records. The Flower was created there, recorded there, and researched there. The names of the researchers would be in their records. The data on the flower would also be in their records.

I'd like to mention that this is the same Elpis where the head of the facility created a familiar utilizing a little-known and heretofore non-useful aspect of the universe, made several copies of that familiar and networked them together, then sent those copies out into the universe, and told nobody about it until we confronted him after we managed to find a witness. There are no records about Meteion; Hermes declined to submit the concept to the Bureau of the Architect because Meteion is allegedly "still in testing" (which is fine), while also sending Meteia into the greater universe (which is not fine). This contravenes the stated rules of Elpis, and yet nobody really cared about Hermes doing this stuff until it all went pear-shaped.

Well, not precisely the stated Rules As Written, which limits the scope of new creations regarding Etheirys. But I feel that it's certainly contravening Rules As Intended, since if a creation has not gone through enough testing to be let loose onto Etheirys, it should follow that it has also not gone through enough testing to be let loose onto the universe in which Etheirys resides.

The statement that Ancient Amaurotine society has enough rules and records that being able to find obscure former researchers or their recorded notes is possible, much less simple, is the one that does not stand under scrutiny, if taken in context with what we're also shown in the course of the narrative. Clearly to the Amaurotines, the rules are enforced through decorum, and if someone were to break the rules, they'd just get a disapproving glance and snide comment at most. This does not strike me as a system that would be conscientious enough to have meticulous and easily accessible records.

[Vyrerus]

easily accessible

At the time we are sent to Elpis, within that trip to the past, we were sent to a precise day by the auspices of the scriptwriter fate. While we meet Emet-selch and Hythlodaeus, and we know the offices they hold, we know no big details about the duties of said offices nor how long either of them have held those offices. If you've ever been elected, promoted, or placed into a leadership position to fill someone else's shoes, then you would realize that you don't get the 4-1-1 on everything in your domain on day 1. Sometimes not even year 1, depending on the gravity of the office. Then there's also the fact that in a lot of jobs, leadership position or otherwise, there's a lot to the job but there are operations and necessities that are so infrequent as to be forgotten. Even by veterans. Compare and contrast with a submarine captain. The captain has to know every system of the boat in a general sense, but has to delegate specific responsibilities to lower officers who then carry out actually working everything with their different divisions. Hythlodaeus could be the most competent Chief of the Bureau of the Architect that the Amaurotines ever had, and he probably still wouldn't know the skinny on each every creation ever submitted. It's a huge operation.

Mmm, don't misunderstand me. I do not mean it is an emotional conflation for Emet-selch. I meant it is one for the player. "Wow he doesn't know, I'm shocked! This must be a really mysterious force." Something in that vein. But as we see in this portion of the MSQ, the Convocation don't even work together. Later on in Pandaemonium we get even more of a suggestion that they are akin to the Sharlayan Forum, and they don't work together till they call a meeting to do just that. It still makes sense that no one told Emet, because Dynamis does not pertain to any of the Convocation's jobs at this point in time. Serves him right too, just standing there not calling up Grani or anything, monologuing into memory erasure. SMH

I'll point out, as you have pointed out, Hermes is the leader of Elpis. Leaders often abuse positions of authority to bend and break rules. Subordinates do not call them out for fear of loss of position or loss of potential increase in rank or pay. It's not really a commentary on how lax rules are in Elpis, but moreso that Hermes is beholden to no one there. There is no one who can, or wishes to, enforce the rules on him.


Also, I'll state that it is merely plot contrivance that the researchers are kept obscure. Like I said earlier, it would have been better if the lines were written to be that Dynamis was Hermes' personal discovery without mentioning anyone else. However vaguely they were mentioned. If I'm supposed to embrace the vagaries of Venat/Hydaelyn retroactively, then I am going to embrace the vagaries about other segments of the plot too. And if they are spiny and shifty and questionable, then I will question them and point them out. This is the case here. Hermes is not the only Ancient well versed in Dynamis.