My humble take on new SMN

[IchiExorz]

I'm fine with dots being gone (having a dot mage next expac would be nice though, allthough i'd personally prefer Time mage or osmething) and i'm happy with the direction in which they took the class with the big one off summons doing their big attack and leaving.
I do think the class plays fluid and honestly feels pretty enjoyable to play.

That being said I think the class lacks any depth and it feels very empty. I also feel like they "reworked" the class while trying to keep things that add nothing to the summoning identity. Having the carbuncle have a defensive shield feels weird as it otherwise does nothing, aetherflow seems tacked on without any thought, could be replaced or worked into the summoning aspect.

I'd have personally much rather see SMN with a mechanic like MNK's new Blitz mechanic where you have to build up to a summon to do a big nuke.
Like you work towards the specific summon you want by using certain skills in a certain order.
But for that SMN would have needed an even bigger rework I think.

[dinnertime]

That being said I think the class lacks any depth and it feels very empty. I also feel like they "reworked" the class while trying to keep things that add nothing to the summoning identity. [...] aetherflow seems tacked on without any thought, could be replaced or worked into the summoning aspect.

I'd have personally much rather see SMN with a mechanic like MNK's new Blitz mechanic where you have to build up to a summon to do a big nuke.
Like you work towards the specific summon you want by using certain skills in a certain order.
But for that SMN would have needed an even bigger rework I think.

That's how SMN used to work. Back in Heavensward and Stormblood, Aetherflow was a main resource to spend so you can access Dreadwyrm and Bahamut. For some reason they took that away and ever since, Aetherflow is just a button that gives you extra damage with no other mechanic.
I'd be surprised if they go back to that.

[Adelx]

New summoner is very simple and boring .. we misses dots mage.

[Shayuki]

The new Summoner definitely feels incomplete. The first indication of this is that when you sync to lvl 50 the job's literally unplayable, and far behind most of the decent jobs in damage. Even if lvl 50 isn't being actively balanced for, it should still not feel like a lvl 24 run in Tam-Tara Deepcroft. The progression also makes no sense. To lvl 60 you gain a minor improvement and to lvl 70 you also gain another minor improvement - Essentially, you spend all those levels just for Deathflare and Akh Morn. Lvl 80 is the real kicker though, because you actually get nerfed. Lvl 79 Summoner is stronger than lvl 80 Summoner, because having Bahamut every 60 seconds is better than having to cast Phoenix who doesn't get Deathflare and gets some weak heal instead. That alone reeks of a poorly designed job.

As others have mentioned, it only receives the depth of a lvl 60 job at lvl 86. Before that point it honestly is equivalent to a lvl 50 job. At lvl 50 it's equivalent to a lvl 30 job if lucky.


Right now, it's by far the most braindead job in the game. The only piece of optimization is saving Aetherflow for use during party buffs, but of course even doing that requires just about no skill since you have numerous oGCD slots and there are zero complications in saving the Festers, no resource management or anything. From lvl 86 it's passable, before that it's dreadful and at 50 it's downright insulting. Also, it's a joke that its Capstone lvl 90 ability is just some lame trait that increases summon damage by 100 potency. That would absolutely never fly if the job had not specifically have been reworked for this expansion.


Another thing that I dislike is that Summon Phoenix is set in stone. You really cannot use the heal strategically. You can throw the Rekindle on the tank and try to be with your party when you press it, but you cannot strategically use the heal for stacked AoE or anything. Especially considering that Phoenix now actually NERFS you from the way you were at lvl 70-79, they really should make it a seperate ability, perhaps with charges, that you instead would use for some healing utility. And being able to use Deathflare every 60s would also give Summoner a much-needed damage buff.

I also don't really like how summons block you out from using some abilities, like your defensive cooldown. I guess that's one way to add "depth" but I think that that's a pain and would much prefer a different method. You can't exactly just not summon Bahamut when it's up, and then if you'd need the defensive while it's summoned you're just screwed. It also has a weird delay because for whatever reason it's cast by your pet so you need to cast it far in advance which also is a pain to deal with.


I mainly assume that if people find new Summoner fun to play it's because it's new. Give it a year and I imagine it will not be nearly as popular.

[Miziliti]

The new SMN is a GCD mage mostly. It plays and feels like a physical range job with most of its attacks being instant. We're lvl 90 now and I still can't believe we're stuck with Ifrit/Garuda/Titan trio. It felt boring fast, but the low damage is the most depressing part.

[Shayuki]

The thing that annoys me most of all is that you get nerfed at lvl 80. If Phoenix had been locked behind a job quest I would never have finished it. Other jobs get all sorts of cool stuff at 80, for Summoner it's "congrats, you're now a worse job than you were at 79!". It's no wonder Summoner's completely overpowered in lvl 70 content like the Ultimates because you actually get to summon Bahamut every 60s and don't have to deal with the Phoenix nerfs. But it really would be cool if at lvl 80 you became better instead of worse.

[IchiExorz]

That's how SMN used to work. Back in Heavensward and Stormblood, Aetherflow was a main resource to spend so you can access Dreadwyrm and Bahamut. For some reason they took that away and ever since, Aetherflow is just a button that gives you extra damage with no other mechanic.
I'd be surprised if they go back to that.

Yeah I mained SMN back in HW. I quite loved the class (despite it not feleing like a "summoner" at all but ok. Wasn't a fan of the changes in SB though.)
But over the expansions they dumbed down how aetherflow affects our rotation to the point it just feels tacked on now. It's just 3 ogcd's on a 60 sec cooldown.

I don't necessarily want them to go back to dots but at least have it have some effect on our "new" summoning mechanic.

[OtakuSempai]

Not like all SMN mains I know are complaining about the braindead aspect of the job.
Not like there was a meme about the SMN rotation simplified as playing with legos.

You can defend as hard as you can and shell yourself, there are people who are unhappy with the state of the job.
Do you have to agree? No. But you have to accept their opinion as they are just that, opinions.

One poor dot won't bring ShB summoner back, you are overexagerating the situation. Plus, the problem was never the dot but the terrible pet AI.
And we also discussed the bio part, IV SMN is IV SMN, XIV SMN is XIV SMN. No one cries that MCH isn't using a melee job using a spear.

People are unhappy and it's quite impolite of you to try to silence their voices by repeating "But it's a minority!!!"

Exactly, so sick of people like this. Overly dismissive, rude apologists who think they can handwave away their fellow player's opinions.

[OtakuSempai]

Fair point.
Also people don't acknowledge aveyond-dreams. It's either a troll or a moron. Neither deserves attention

I second this but would avoid stooping to their level with the name calling. They're pretty diehard about defending the current design at all costs and are super upset about anyone disagreeing and adding absolutely 0 to the conversation.

Please ignore and move on, cause I think this convo is worth having.

[mathias-merodach]

This is my first post on the forums. I've only been playing for a couple of years in this game, but since that time I've put in in thousands of hours. Normally I hate casters, but Summoner and dots brought me back to the first caster in a game I ever enjoyed: Madness sorcerer in SW:TOR. With that said, I am another in the line that does not enjoy the changes to summoner with Endwalker. Mind, I agree that it is very different than summoner in other games in how it functioned even in SHB. But that was another thing that drew me into the job so much. Summoner has been so different throughout the length of the Final Fantasy series that it lends itself to be whatever the world needs it to be but there are things that, to my knowledge, set FF14's apart from all the others.

Never before has summoning come from a conquering empire. In most games, it's either someone every character can do, or limited to a singular character from some small tribe or sheltered village. Here, it comes from the power of a militarily strong, technologically advanced empire. In most games, the act of summoning itself causes an awesome attack; the attack itself may play actual world affecting destruction such as Bahamut in 9. In 14, however, the act of summoning itself truly affects and potentially damages the world itself because of how magic works in this universe. But it's also a broken art that we are relearning. The egis are even explained; why we can't gain more (I don't agree with it but it is a corner they wrote themselves in that they haven't written out yet.) As for the dots being there, it could still be even more justified if we were able to learn more about the Allagan Summoners of old, such as more details as to what they did that caused such fear which led to them being slaughtered to a man. Maybe it was through the use of spells such as Bio and Miasma and Outburst to weaken en masse before they crushed their foes in one fell swoop through summoning?

As for the DoT mage aspect, I would say that it further added to 14's unique version of summoner. While there is often a comparison to WoW's affliction warlock to speak of summoner's dots with disdain, my opinion from having played the new version is this: it's been made into a Dungeons and Dragons Warlock. One that took its patron as a Fiend (the egi's), pact of the chain through having Carbuncle, who then proceeds to do nothing but use Eldritch Blast throughout every single combat encounter. Altered yes, but even Eldritch Blast has different versions based on the invocations one choses and, in the end, it is still the same old Eldritch Blast. And a warlock. And a warlock with far less function.