This is getting ridiculous. (Endwalker MSQ and post MSQ spoilers)

[Ravor]

Well, this is a solid argument to have and its fair to say that some set/theme are reskinned/reused, but getting mad over this kind of stuff is useless, just post this once argue once and get on with it, this is what you get from this expansion, in the live letter they usually detailed their priority and program, if you want an answer do watch that live letter, dont waste the dev time to reexplain everything more than once or necessary, they already make some new set/theme but doesnt have time for every lvl apparantly because perhaps they spend their money elsewhere, new oceania server? island sanctuary? story writing? map design? tier set? or even more salary for yoshi P or the dev? who knows? at least they are being more transparant than most other developer on what they were thinking and doing in the live letter, who knows perhaps they will answer this thread question in the next live letter?

[Kaurhz]

So what’s the excuse for them reusing a dungeon theme for an expert dungeon lmao. They couldn’t even give us a new expert dungeon theme for one of them.

The fact you've asked this question previously and the fact you ask it once again is almost baffling. There is no excuse here, but as I have told you, if you think this is new or even exclusive to this expansion then you haven't done your research since this is present as early as Heavensward (Most especially games within the same franchise), and aside from this? I don't know? Maybe the lead composer having health issues. Also FYI assuming we're referring to the same thing, that particular theme is actually the Primals Remix as opposed to being an outright reuse.

You thought you were clever with this one - But in reality it's a poorly made argument. 'lmao'

[KizuyaKatogami]

The fact you've asked this question previously and the fact you ask it once again is almost baffling. There is no excuse here, but as I have told you, if you think this is new or even exclusive to this expansion then you haven't done your research since this is present as early as Heavensward (Most especially games within the same franchise), and aside from this? I don't know? Maybe the lead composer having health issues. Also FYI assuming we're referring to the same thing, that particular theme is actually the Primals Remix as opposed to being an outright reuse.

You thought you were clever with this one - But in reality it's a poorly made argument. 'lmao'

Uh oh someone’s getting tilted. When did they reuse an expert dungeon theme in HW? But even disregarding that using an earlier expansion as proof isn’t a very good argument. Again we should be seeing improvements on these things. They should have a backup composer, that’s kind of part of the hiring procedure they shouldn’t have everything relying on him. You’ve had a lot of poorly made arguments in this thread but you’re entitled to them as anyone else is. The fact you’re still constantly responding to me is almost baffling. I didn’t think i was clever, i was simply pointing out an objective fact. It’s lazy, especially after all the money the players have made for the game. We get rewarded with the most gear reuse out of any expansion and an expert dungeon theme reuse. I’m going to keep mentioning it yes because people shouldn’t be quieted down about criticism, it needs to be brought to their attention and this is what the forums are for no? I understand it may be the norm for you and a majority of the community to gulp down everything the devs try and feed you but not everyone follows that philosophy. You do you though Merry christmas!

[Kaurhz]

snip.

I would consider it a fairly natural thing, I took my time responding to that comment for you to graciously ignore it, and then subsequently ask it again, by definition wasting my time. I'm not talking about exclusively reused in expert dungeons but rather throughout the game itself. But hey I will just bring up Calcabrina's theme for you, in addition to the theme used for Doma - Let me just elaborate and expand that we should be seeing an increase in content or at the very least a general increase throughout the course of the expansion, not where you just deem fit to use your yardstick and cherry pick content areas to use to try and create a narrative that the developers are lazy. instead of trying to present the question of why, you practically almost immediately took the troupe of exclaiming they're lazy, despite yourself probably not even being in the development or project management field, but this aside, I don't think you or anyone (myself included) is fit to throw around this accusation until the entire of the expansion has concluded (including patches which introduce further content). But like I said with regards to the particular theme, it was actually the Primals arrangement and not the same from the original encounter. Not only that it appropriately fit the dungeon. You don't needlessly reinvent the wheel when something wholly appropriate has already been created for it. I mean and Omega theme, used in a dungeon which essentially encompassed the Omicrons.. Who'd a thought, such a tyranny.

I'm hardly trying to silence your criticism, in fact I actually agree that it's a valid criticism, I just question the conclusion that you so gleefully arrived at in that you're chalking it up to lazy, money hungry piggies, as opposed to simply asking if those resources are going to be focussed elsewhere in the expansions development going forward. In fact no my arguments have just been terribly interpreted evidently. But hey, opinions and all.

There's a certain level of irony in that you seem to feel you can throw criticism around, yet not be open to simple fact that not many people share your criticisms of the game, or at the very least view them to be very mundane in the grand scope of things. As per another thread, which applies quite heavily in this case.

Or people just have different ideals and feedback on what would constitute as bettering the game. It's almost like.. A difference in opinion/outlook.

You know, quite like the purpose with which a forum is designed for debating, both in agreement, or disagreement. This doesn't apply word-for-word, but me not sharing the self-same criticism as you does not equate to me simply gulping down whatever the developers feed me. Contrary to how people might use this in attempt to deflect a disagreement in their outlook or philosophy. I just simply have the mindset that they're electing to use these 'cut' efforts elsewhere within the development of the game.

[KizuyaKatogami]

snip

I wasn’t saying you in particular but as a general thing as that’s a major problem with these forums and the community as a whole. They try to silence people who have valid concerns for the game. I felt the same way you do in Shb, when they cut certain things. I said, surely we’ll just see those resources allocated elsewhere. The missing primal weapons, the loss of dungeons,deep dungeons, hildibrand etc. Yet despite their claims i didn’t see much improvement. They stated they reduced the amount of dungeons so they can focus more one the ones we did get yet the expert dungeons from 5.1+ are complete jokes. The bosses are simple and the mob packs die incredibly fast compared to base game things. We don’t know where the resources went to that would’ve been put towards hildibrand or allied beast tribe quests, nor do we know where they put the resources that would’ve went towards a second pvp set and an end of expansion set. You would think the missing glams would mean we’d then get less reused gear or we’d at least get dyable dungeon gear but…nope that didn’t happen. So at this point am i going to be wondering that again like i was in ShB? It’s not good to already see this much reusing this early on especially for the expansion that’s after the one that broke both money and player records.Again we should be seeing at the very least the same amount of content we got last expansion. Especially with the 6-7 month delay. Like, genuinely, the fact we are 4 expansions in and dyable dungeon gear is still a foreign concept is beyond crazy.

[FrogDog]

Contrary to how people might use this in attempt to deflect a disagreement in their outlook or philosophy. I just simply have the mindset that they're electing to use these 'cut' efforts elsewhere within the development of the game.

Oh cool! So, are we getting more zones? Oh nope, it's still 6?
More trials? Oh....guess not.
Maybe an extra alliance raid? Hmmmm, don't think so.
Perhaps we're getting a few more dungeons! Darn, that's right those got cut to one a patch and they don't even have unique gear most of the time.
Well, surely they're overhauling some systems like housing or inventory/glam. What? They're not doing that either?

You get my point. The cuts aren't resulting in new content. As far as actually new content that breaks with the formula what are we getting this xpac? Island Sanctuary? It'd better be amazing and not like just a week-long diversion like BLU then.

[Kaurhz]

snip.

Sure, some people have that perspective on things, but in many regards it cannot help. Some people ask for such changes, or deviates that it would require a complete redo of their design philosophies, be it with respect to dungeons or raids. So realistically pointing someone in the avenue is not necessarily the worst idea in the world as their expectations or demands never bear fruit.

See personally this is where I'm going to disagree with you. Not entirely, but fundamentally. We've seen as much content in ShB as we have with other previous expansions, the only issue is, is that this content potentially came at the expense of something that ultimately became fundamental to how we level with outstanding replayability value, and in this case I point the finger towards our deep dungeon comrade. We got as much content, if not more than previous expansions, but unfortunately it didn't see the same replayability value. This is an area where the developers have always been the most vulnerable. For example, deep dungeon has the potential in essentially incorporating something similar to what you might see with Mythic+, without necessarily requiring them to rethink and redo their linear dungeon format. Personally, I enjoyed ShB a heck of a lot more than I did Stormblood, and Stormblood I enjoyed less than ARR.

The dungeons I also personally disagree on, considering we got Delubrum (multi-tiered), and Dalriada on top of Castrum Lacus (arguably one of these is just the equivalent of Baldesion Arsenal). The problem with trying to look where those resources went is that it won't necessarily always translate to a 1-1, and sometimes it forsakes quantity for quality, with the latter being a very subjective matter, and is something that if tried could be debated until new year. Similarly, we could debate all day long about the actual gear assets themselves and the effort that goes into them. This is why I'm very adamant and argumentative on the matter. Sure we have less 1 less mount, an entirely omitted gearset and heaven forbid a disparity between the number of new assets on an expansion by expansion basis, But whilst I hold the opinion that more effort has gone into the individual or uniquely released assets then I will stand by that argument, regardless. (Again, the whole quantity vs quality trade-off)

For example, regardless of how hard I try I cannot create the situation where I view Stormblood zones as having any form of merit, let alone when I make the contrast with Shadowbringers or Heavensward.

[Kaurhz]

Oh cool! So, are we getting more zones? Oh nope, it's still 6?
More trials? Oh....guess not.
Maybe an extra alliance raid? Hmmmm, don't think so.
Perhaps we're getting a few more dungeons! Darn, that's right those got cut to one a patch and they don't even have unique gear most of the time.
Well, surely they're overhauling some systems like housing or inventory/glam. What? They're not doing that either?

You get my point. The cuts aren't resulting in new content. As far as actually new content that breaks with the formula what are we getting this xpac? Island Sanctuary? It'd better be amazing and not like just a week-long diversion like BLU then.

I like how you elected to ignore the simple fact of:
- Ishgard Restoration (Which saw the emergence of an 'expert' system & several unique glamours)
- Ocean Fishing
- Non-combat relics
- Large scale raid encounter (which also included a normal and savage difficulty)
- Dalriada, and Castrum Lacus Litore
- Mahjong
- Crafter/Gatherer overhaul
- Additions to the Performance system
- Additions to BLU which at least saw encouragement in actually utilising it for older raids
- Introduction of Faux Hollows

Don't be intentionally ignorant on the content that was added. Sorry but no I don't get your point.

[Makeda]

I'm not sure why we need more gear when EVERYONE wears Hempen Camise and 2B leggings anyway...

/ducksAndHides ...

[KizuyaKatogami]

I like how you elected to ignore the simple fact of:
- Ishgard Restoration (Which saw the emergence of an 'expert' system & several unique glamours)
- Ocean Fishing
- Non-combat relics
- Large scale raid encounter (which also included a normal and savage difficulty)
- Dalriada, and Castrum Lacus Litore
- Mahjong
- Crafter/Gatherer overhaul
- Additions to the Performance system
- Additions to BLU which at least saw encouragement in actually utilising it for older raids
- Introduction of Faux Hollows

Don't be intentionally ignorant on the content that was added. Sorry but no I don't get your point.

I think he was mainly talking about this expansion and upgrades we may or should have seen but didn’t. Irregardless though, Let’s not act like Faux Hollows was some monumental thing. Unreal trials are quite literally the same exact thing as their normal extreme trials just doing more damage and having more hp. If i’m not mistaken the faux hollow mounts are just reskins of already existing mounts. Blu saw upgrades yes but we also got that in SB alongside many of the other things SB provided us with. Ishgard restoration was new but something like Diadem was not, and neither was the whole collectible thing really. The housing district also wasn’t something new and extra as SB gave us an entire housing district as well in the very expansion it was introduced. ShB may have given us ocean fishing but SB also gave us Spear fishing AND diving. Non combat relics are a new and needed addition so those are true yes, along with the 3 bozja raids however it is certainly debatable if those raid bosses equal up the the quality and amount we’d have gotten if we got deep dungeon and the removed dungeons instead. Especially if you take into account the 2 extra zones eureka had.