The Bizarre Lack of Development and Pathos Concerning Zenos [6.0 Spoilers]

[Theox]

Too much thought for someone so mediocre and unimportant as Zenos. Please don't overcomplicate and don't give more meaning to something that's not complex in the first place. And no, please, for the love of God, don't bring him back. This focus on reforming someone is a bit obsessive. Sometimes people are the way they are and that's it. Why do we feel the need to force an idea of being a "good person" on everybody? If Zenos comes back and becomes another Estinien I swear I'm gonna Kate Marsh.

[marrrow]

Too much thought for someone so mediocre and unimportant as Zenos. Please don't overcomplicate and don't give more meaning to something that's not complex in the first place. And no, please, for the love of God, don't bring him back. This focus on reforming someone is a bit obsessive. Sometimes people are the way they are and that's it. Why do we feel the need to force an idea of being a "good person" on everybody? If Zenos comes back and becomes another Estinien I swear I'm gonna Kate Marsh.

He's so unimportant that he was a major antagonist in two expansions; yeah, thinking about how & why he was written the way he was written certainly is a pointless exercise

[HyoMinPark]

He's so unimportant that he was a major antagonist in two expansions; yeah, thinking about how & why he was written the way he was written certainly is a pointless exercise

Hmm. You’d have a point for antagonist in Stormblood (through, I think classifying him as a “major” one is kind of stretching it, since we spent way more time dealing with Yotsuyu as a villain versus him—and 4.x Zenos was just Elidibus in Zenos’s body)—but in Endwalker? He took a major backseat for basically the entire expansion. Fandaniel/Hermès and Meteion were the antagonists. Zenos was just that weird fanboy who harassed our character about fighting him every time he was on camera.

[vormela]

Well, I for one can't wait for Zenos to become the next Emet-Selch dividing everyone.

His existence said/says something about us. I dunno what it is just yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if he comes back. As if the sunset/sunrise imagery for the fight wasn't enough to suggest there is some kind of cosmic connection! They have been on this dueling-suns morning/evening star track for a while now in the story, the two who cannot coexist (Azim Steppe gods...although naamah (spelling?) was more lunar, I admit). I used to think he was the one Azem sans memories with only the uncontrollable urge to fight the biggest strong people.

That he managed to be less creepy to me than Fandaniel in the dinner scene is something that has stuck with me. Can't put a finger on it. They are both nihilists on the surface, but Zenos is something more. Even though he seems simpler. I don't think he is. ETA: and I am not talking about a tragic backstory. I mean just him as a being.

[Anonymoose]

Can't put a finger on it. They are both nihilists on the surface, but Zenos is something more.

Some friends and I were just debating what the "proper" term for Zenos is, and whether there's a meaningful difference between existentialism / active nihilism / optimistic nihilism. I personally landed on existentialist for Zenos, as "life has no worth but what you give it" but also "it's worth finding meaning in it"; that's what, for me, separated him from actual nihilists Xande / Amon ("life has no meaning but what you give it and it's not worth giving it any").

As we joked about it more, Venat was tongue-in-cheek pinned as "absurdist" (life has no meaning but what you give it, and it's a paradox to try to look for meaning that doesn't exist, and you should accept this, but also rebel against it by embracing what life has to offer). Though the lyrics to Answers are a cloud you can see any shape in so it comes as no surprise to me you can use it to defend the absurdist worldview, lmao.

[vormela]

Some friends and I were just debating what the "proper" term for Zenos is, and whether there's a meaningful difference between existentialism / active nihilism / optimistic nihilism. I personally landed on existentialist for Zenos, as "life has no worth but what you give it" but also "it's worth finding meaning in it"; that's what, for me, separated him from actual nihilists Xande / Amon ("life has no meaning but what you give it and it's not worth giving it any").

As we joked about it more, Venat was tongue-in-cheek pinned as "absurdist" (life has no meaning but what you give it, and it's a paradox to try to look for meaning that doesn't exist, and you should accept this, but also rebel against it by embracing what life has to offer). Though the lyrics to Answers are a cloud you can see any shape in so it comes as no surprise to me you can use it to defend the absurdist worldview, lmao.

We posted this at the same time and are basically saying the same thing. XD
Is life good? Well then.

[Elysidelphi]

Well, I for one can't wait for Zenos to become the next Emet-Selch dividing everyone.

His existence said/says something about us. I dunno what it is just yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if he comes back. As if the sunset/sunrise imagery for the fight wasn't enough to suggest there is some kind of cosmic connection! They have been on this dueling-suns morning/evening star track for a while now in the story, the two who cannot coexist (Azim Steppe gods...although naamah (spelling?) was more lunar, I admit). I used to think he was the one Azem sans memories with only the uncontrollable urge to fight the biggest strong people.

That he managed to be less creepy to me than Fandaniel in the dinner scene is something that has stuck with me. Can't put a finger on it. They are both nihilists on the surface, but Zenos is something more. Even though he seems simpler. I don't think he is. ETA: and I am not talking about a tragic backstory. I mean just him as a being.

So well said! And thank you for mentioning that detail about the sunset/sunrise imagery for the fight and the possibility of a cosmic connection. Thank you for pointing it out, such a great yet subtle detail.

[Vuro]

Why do we feel the need to force an idea of being a "good person" on everybody?

Did you even read my post? I doubt it, because this has literally nothing to do with finding the goodness in Zenos or reforming him. Maybe do more than skim the text and try again if you're going to bother replying at all lmao.