People advertising they're running Parsers

[Miles064]

I like this wordplay like 'abacus' and 'math tools' implying parsers are even remotely hard to use or understand.

Imagine if this game had Details and all it's functions. Knowing how the spread of all your dmg moves and how many times you used them as well as how many times each crit/direct hit would baffle some of these people somehow. How much mana you generated, dmg takin, dmg mitigated, interrupts used, etc. Slightly more advanced abacus be scary.

[Doozer]

ok grey LOL

Ok, person who uses an alt/inactive character to talk smack on the forums with no one pulling up their logs.

[Rinhi]

I like this wordplay like 'abacus' and 'math tools' implying parsers are even remotely hard to use or understand.



No one, literally ever, in 14 years of wow, has pointed out DPS numbers in Ragefire Chasm or Deadmines in WoW from my experience-which is that game's version of Sastasha. People don't even do this in max level dungeons in WoW, outside of the most toxic of people, which both games have such people, otherwise it happens in both games only in content where DPS actually matters.

I think you're exaggerating a little.

Also falls to reason to say, if you were doing good dps people wouldn't complain about your dps....have you tried getting better instead of getting offended that people called you out on poor performance? Just saying.

I'd say 75% of the posts of the person you're quoting are about how toxic parsers, wow and accountability are and being unable to see their own hostility/'toxicity' in the way they're posting about it
you can't reason with them

[Xuled]

Ok, person who uses an alt/inactive character to talk smack on the forums with no one pulling up their logs.

rofl feelings got hurt so went on alt account I see. good job OP. one day you will accept a baseline standard of acceptable gameplay at endgame instead of carrying this "Gcbtw" community of low skill ceilings.

[lisaa]

ok grey LOL

I think this just shows why it would be better if fflogs didn’t exist, or at least was private by default. It’s fun optimizing with friends and for people who want to try for the top rankings, but when you use it to look at other players and judge them for their ranking it is just encouraging toxic and not fun.

Even if that kind of harassment is not allowed in game it still encourages that kind of toxicity outside the game like in this thread or in discord and stuff.

[Doozer]

rofl feelings got hurt so went on alt account I see. good job OP. one day you will accept a baseline standard of acceptable gameplay at endgame instead of carrying this "Gcbtw" community of low skill ceilings.

I'm.... not the OP. You need to get your eyes checked.

[Makeda]

Parsers is fully legit to use as they doesnt affect the game in any way

Actually in a recent interview they finally specifically addressed this and said otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU

[Makeda]

I like this wordplay like 'abacus' and 'math tools' implying parsers are even remotely hard to use or understand.

While people who regularly run savage and other upper end content with statics will say they've never seen issues with these tools because they're likely running with people that use such tools to self improve - the problem is in low tier content.

Coming from WoW, all the harassment I'd see over meters, logs, etc was in low end PUG dungeons and raids - and when people at this level tried to form statics.

World First raiders (top 10-20 guilds) don't even use these tools because they're all so good they know how anyone can spike the tools to get fake results that make them look better or someone else worse. They're also all good enough to take someone on a test run and be able to judge it accurately.

High end raiders (top 200 guilds or so) DO use the logs because they're still of the belief that the data is any good - and wonder why world firsters ignore their logs when they try to push up into those statics... but there's much drama in that tier over them.

Mid range raiders... they're good enough that their logs are OK and this is where I've found the least drama. These folks don't usually know how to cheat logs - so their data is closer to their skill, and they're usually all in statics so they're past judging by logs anyway - and instead use them as a group to do post run analysis among raid leaders.

Low end raiders - the logs are occult magic to these people. They have no idea what most of the numbers mean. All they know is A is better than B, so kick B from the group. Even if it was just that one pull, these folks often don't know how to gauge over time...


And this is where the toxicity would enter FFXIV - the low tier. In your leveling roulette of all places. Or in the 'raid roulette' that pops Alexander on one of those bosses that takes 12 seconds to down... Places where lower skilled players live. People like that looking at a log that says A did 30% more DPS than B - will go nuts at B, who suddenly finds themselves removed from their FC over it... Nevermind that B was a Dancer and A a Samurai...

It would also enter the game with mid-high people are forming up statics and using logs that some players can cheat and others cannot - and making calls on who gets to stay or get tossed out over it. But mostly, it would make running your daily roulette a nightmare of toxic chat... People would be going nuts at each other in Sastasha... Sounds absurd, but that's how it plays out in WoW.

And the problem is that once players are getting 'tilted' by the Sastasga runs, they bring that with them into the local chat when hanging out in Limsa and elsewhere... and it just starts to spread like a disease...

[LittleImp]

You need to realize that the authority of SE far exceeds that of any raid/party leader or any third party tool. The data pertaining to a particular character is entrusted to the player of said character. They are allowed to use that data and limit it's use to some degree.

All of the data that parsers use is already made explicitly publicly available in the game itself. Anyone who is in your vicinity can see exactly which abilities you are executing, how much damage they are dealing, and anything you are saying into chat. As Yoshida has said in the past, if anyone so desired they could sweep select the combat log and insert the data into an excel sheet.

Being what you call a "bad player" is not a crime. They are not a suspect to be tried in your court. If you don't want them in the group you are forming then don't let them in. But, don't make it public that you are looking at FFlogs to make your decision.

Being a bad player and intentionally taking measures to obfuscate that fact while applying to groups that you know are well above your skillset is shady at best, toxic at worst. Almost every group that recruits on external platforms requests logs or searches their applicants. If this option wasn't available, groups would have to waste hours upon hours of time trialing people that they could have easily disqualified with a simple log check. You would be absolutely astonished at the types of players that attempt to apply for ultimate groups sometimes.

I'm invested in the success of my group, and I'm not going to waste their or my time because I feel some misguided moral imperative not to look at freely available data.

[Sylve]

I've seen it. Had nothing to do with a parser either. "damn this trash is taking FOREVER to die wth" is usually it.

As a Healer myself, spamming Dyskrasia and Toxikon, trash is taking too long when the Tank starts running out of Defensives and nothing is dead yet. While I'm the kind of person who just suffers in silence in order to force a party to the finish line, I'm sure theres more than a few people who would rather try to prod others into doing better with all the subtelty of a bag of bricks lol.

Don't need a parser to see that trash is taking too long to clear lol. The exact numbers from each party member is entirely irrelavent to the fact that the Tank is out of defensive buttons and all I can do is spam E-Diag to keep the Tank alive because i have absolutely nothing left other than GCD heals (yes, This happened a number of times, primarily in the first 2 dungeons and the first few days after hitting 90 when groups went into EXRoulette dungeons without even getting their job gear) though this happens far less often now that most people have farmed up the tome gear at least lol.

It's kind of sad that any mention of the party's performance other than 'wow everyone is amazing!' is immediately accused of attacking people with a parser :/

I've even been accused of such when i tried to help a Black Mage way back in the olden days of ARR Aurum Vale when i saw the poor fella spamming Fire 3 and Blizzard 3.
Had to remind the party that cast bars were very much visible in the party list and i could literally see what he was doing wrong with his rotation, lol.
(He actually took the advice really well and immediately started riding the Tanks enmity where previously he was barely visible on the bar lol)