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  1. #1
    Player
    rewd's Avatar
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    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Risvertasashi View Post
    I've heard sage described as the job that would come about if someone went "What if white mage were a shield healer?"

    Though, I don't precisely agree with it - sage is about having tons of CDs and knowing how to best rotate/pace them. Like Scholar, it lacks the brute force of cure 2/benefic 2 for when the CDs are out and healing might get a bit rough.
    Cure II and Benefic II are 800 potency, Eukrasian Diagnosis and Adloquium are 840 potency and 1380 potency when they crit.

    Scholar, Sage and Astrologian all have tons of oGCD they have to rotate in the most efficient way, so it's just not Sage's playstyle. Sage has it easier as it is not as busy as AST and has a more straightfoward kit compared to Scholar's.
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  2. #2
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    Risvertasashi's Avatar
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    Makani Risvertasashi
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    Ultros
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    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by rewd View Post
    Cure II and Benefic II are 800 potency, Eukrasian Diagnosis and Adloquium are 840 potency and 1380 potency when they crit.
    the problem with equating shield potencies to heals is shields don't actually get HP up, and you lose the potency if you recast too soon. So if you're in a situation where "The tank pulled wall to wall, the DPS are slow, and all the mitigation has run out", it's still not quite adequate for brute force healing.

    And, spamming GCD shields like that will run you dry pretty fast.

    But this isn't really the place for debating the finer points of such merits. OP asked about newbie friendly healers, so I think the simplest is the best unless he craves the (relative) complexity and nuance right from the start.

    Quote Originally Posted by rewd View Post
    Scholar, Sage and Astrologian all have tons of oGCD they have to rotate in the most efficient way, so it's just not Sage's playstyle.
    I was more disagreeing with the notion I've seen going around that sage is a "shield white mage"; not saying that sage is unique.

    Though, on that note, I do feel sage's pacing and placement of CDs is bit distinct from SCH and especially AST.
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  3. #3
    Player
    rewd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risvertasashi View Post
    the problem with equating shield potencies to heals is shields don't actually get HP up, and you lose the potency if you recast too soon. So if you're in a situation where "The tank pulled wall to wall, the DPS are slow, and all the mitigation has run out", it's still not quite adequate for brute force healing.

    And, spamming GCD shields like that will run you dry pretty fast.

    But this isn't really the place for debating the finer points of such merits. OP asked about newbie friendly healers, so I think the simplest is the best unless he craves the (relative) complexity and nuance right from the start.
    It's only a problem if you make it a problem, as potency is potency. When damage is high, you can chain spam E. Diagnosis/Adlo because the shield will be depleted before your next GCD lands. If damage is not high enough, you can use Dyskrasia/AoW once or twice before reapplying the shield again. I recently had the "pleasure" to heal a DRK as SGE in Smileton. The first w2w pull hits hard and the tank would barely mitigate (only using Arm's lenght and Rampart) and after using all my tools I still had to spam E. Diagnosis, but it was enough to keep him alive. It's just incorrect to say that SGE and SCH can't brute heal when it comes to that.

    There is also a difference between simplicity and ease of play. WHM is simple (but I'd argue every healer is) but what about ease of play, especially in ARR conten where you would be likely to start? SCH and SGE could be considered more "complex" because of their resource management - as simple as it might be, especially SGE's - but why would you even pick WHM over AST if you want a smooth/easy experience?

    Their GCD heals overlap, and on top of that AST comes with the best MP regen in the game (LD, Draw and Astrodyne at level 50!) - while WHM has the worst one by a wide margin - an oGCD available from Sastasha (which, at lower levels, is essentially a Benediction), a CD to make your spells instant and another GCD to boost your ST heals. WHM has PoM which is not as powerful as Synastry/Lighstspeed and also exacerbates the problem with MP regen and Holy. Holy is great... With a good group. Mitigation + big DPS is great. Holy with a mediocre group (the general DF experience), is, on the other hand, often a liability: it's weak, it has a cast time and it requires to stay in melee range.

    AST's cards - especially at lower levels - are not complicated enough to offset the power and ease of use AST brings, so I really can't understand what would make WHM the best beginner healer as people often suggest.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Risvertasashi's Avatar
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    Makani Risvertasashi
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    Quote Originally Posted by rewd View Post
    It's only a problem if you make it a problem, as potency is potency. When damage is high, you can chain spam E. Diagnosis/Adlo because the shield will be depleted before your next GCD lands. If damage is not high enough, you can use Dyskrasia/AoW once or twice before reapplying the shield again. I recently had the "pleasure" to heal a DRK as SGE in Smileton. The first w2w pull hits hard and the tank would barely mitigate (only using Arm's lenght and Rampart) and after using all my tools I still had to spam E. Diagnosis, but it was enough to keep him alive. It's just incorrect to say that SGE and SCH can't brute heal when it comes to that.

    There is also a difference between simplicity and ease of play. WHM is simple (but I'd argue every healer is) but what about ease of play, especially in ARR conten where you would be likely to start? SCH and SGE could be considered more "complex" because of their resource management - as simple as it might be, especially SGE's - but why would you even pick WHM over AST if you want a smooth/easy experience?

    Their GCD heals overlap, and on top of that AST comes with the best MP regen in the game (LD, Draw and Astrodyne at level 50!) - while WHM has the worst one by a wide margin - an oGCD available from Sastasha (which, at lower levels, is essentially a Benediction), a CD to make your spells instant and another GCD to boost your ST heals. WHM has PoM which is not as powerful as Synastry/Lighstspeed and also exacerbates the problem with MP regen and Holy. Holy is great... With a good group. Mitigation + big DPS is great. Holy with a mediocre group (the general DF experience), is, on the other hand, often a liability: it's weak, it has a cast time and it requires to stay in melee range.

    AST's cards - especially at lower levels - are not complicated enough to offset the power and ease of use AST brings, so I really can't understand what would make WHM the best beginner healer as people often suggest.
    You do make a compelling argument for AST. I'd further that and say that a new player could start off ignoring cards (I mean, a low level dungeon party isn't going to notice 3%/5% on one person for a short duration) - making it even easier to start with, and cards can come as they nail down the healing fundamentals.

    The only downside is that some new players wouldn't yet have access to it, but the OP's lodestone shows level 58 and that's far enough along for AST.

    -

    Only thing I don't really agree about is SGE/SCH brute healing (I mean they kinda can, but if they're in that situation they probably already spent the resources they'd need for it, and are setting themselves up for more trouble down the line if the encounter doesn't end quick). But all those nuances and subtleties of resource allocation are things I'm not so eager to foist on a newer player.
    (1)