So this started happening.

[Flay_wind]

I have tanked all EW dungeons as DRK and the only time i had any trouble was when i had Benefic spamming AST. All other times, proper CD management and healer who knows how to play is more than enough for all pulls. DRK self sustain is pretty much non existent and i can't really use my Invuln, but what else is new...

[ssunny2008]

We are talking about DRK here not the other actually good Tank jobs.

We are at a point where healers starting to outright don't like playing with DRKs and this will just get worse if devs don't do something.

Rumours and idiots, nothing else. It´s like the dumb statement "kiting does not work in FF14", which is clearly wrong. Ppl which are bad at tanking or bad at healing floating around and claiming nonsense. Or was it a streamer actually?

My EW experience:

- Playing WAR, running easily through the dungeons, trials and even EX content. Never used invul, kept ppl alive with my heal.
- Playing DRK, running easily through the dungeons, trials and even EX content. Never used invul, kept ppl alive with my barrier.
- Solo-carrying the shit out of Mentorroulette and several dungeons especially the 89 trial and the last MSQ dungeon.
- Still pulling as much as possible in any dungeon, no matter if it´s a low one, the gulg with its big pulls or the new once on any tank.

meanwhile:

- Seeing PLD´s dropping hard in the first big pull, yet they started to go for solopulls only until i told them how to rotate with their defs.
- When playing SGE a PLD died to the last pull before the endboss in the first new dungeon. He ran forward without waiting for the DPS and didn´t used his defs well.
- Seeing a WAR dieing to the unawareness of a healer and he claimed "as always the healer expected that i heal myself". (Healer was checking gear / glam and she is definately NOT bad, but hey, he is WAR right?)
- Was SGE in the Gulg too and the random DRK has been like "big pull inc" before the endboss. He died, no chance i was able to heal them. And guess what? The first thing in the chat was "Sorry my bad, fucked up with my defs.", so we did it again and it was surprisingly easy.

As others said, it´s up to the player behind it and that ppl trust in such rumours or go for a 30min penalty "because they´ve a DRK tank" is beyond me. The most tanks are just bad, standing still on one spot with 10 adds around and being like "healer!!!! heal!!!!", meanwhile a bunch of healers aren´t better.

[Yeol]

Rumours and idiots, nothing else. It´s like the dumb statement "kiting does not work in FF14", which is clearly wrong. Ppl which are bad at tanking or bad at healing floating around and claiming nonsense. Or was it a streamer actually?

My EW experience:

- Playing WAR, running easily through the dungeons, trials and even EX content. Never used invul, kept ppl alive with my heal.
- Playing DRK, running easily through the dungeons, trials and even EX content. Never used invul, kept ppl alive with my barrier.
- Solo-carrying the shit out of Mentorroulette and several dungeons especially the 89 trial and the last MSQ dungeon.
- Still pulling as much as possible in any dungeon, no matter if it´s a low one, the gulg with its big pulls or the new once on any tank.

meanwhile:

- Seeing PLD´s dropping hard in the first big pull, yet they started to go for solopulls only until i told them how to rotate with their defs.
- When playing SGE a PLD died to the last pull before the endboss in the first new dungeon. He ran forward without waiting for the DPS and didn´t used his defs well.
- Seeing a WAR dieing to the unawareness of a healer and he claimed "as always the healer expected that i heal myself". (Healer was checking gear / glam and she is definately NOT bad, but hey, he is WAR right?)
- Was SGE in the Gulg too and the random DRK has been like "big pull inc" before the endboss. He died, no chance i was able to heal them. And guess what? The first thing in the chat was "Sorry my bad, fucked up with my defs.", so we did it again and it was surprisingly easy.

As others said, it´s up to the player behind it and that ppl trust in such rumours or go for a 30min penalty "because they´ve a DRK tank" is beyond me. The most tanks are just bad, standing still on one spot with 10 adds around and being like "healer!!!! heal!!!!", meanwhile a bunch of healers aren´t better.

I would argue that WAR/PLD/GNB do better than DRK when the party DPS is on the low end. This was my experience while leveling PLD and DRK.

With PLD, even if the group DPs was low, I can survive big pulls. With DRK, I wiped twice. Not my fault nor the healer's fault. DPS was low and the job doesn’t have good self heals. So when doing dungeons on DRK, party DPs good? I pull big. Party DPS bad? It's not worth making the healer struggle to keep me alive. The only time I wiped on PLD big pull is when I got a DPS that was literally only using 1 skill in a level 90 dungeon. It was like running a dungeon with 1 tank, 1 healer, and 1 DPS. That one is understandable.

[PaulH]

I am levelling warrior i have not played it since HW and having fun, least there is no silly 5 second pacify as a healer main (for now) i used to hate being demanded to use leeches to remove it.

Healing has become a joke (yep defo but one boil4 x 1000, AOW/Biolysis and the ruin2 as a i move doesn't make up for it. So like anything if i am not happy then try something new and so far tanking is fun.

[Mekhana]

I would argue that WAR/PLD/GNB do better than DRK when the party DPS is on the low end. This was my experience while leveling PLD and DRK.

With PLD, even if the group DPs was low, I can survive big pulls. With DRK, I wiped twice. Not my fault nor the healer's fault. DPS was low and the job doesn’t have good self heals. So when doing dungeons on DRK, party DPs good? I pull big. Party DPS bad? It's not worth making the healer struggle to keep me alive. The only time I wiped on PLD big pull is when I got a DPS that was literally only using 1 skill in a level 90 dungeon. It was like running a dungeon with 1 tank, 1 healer, and 1 DPS. That one is understandable.

That's pretty much how it goes. The problem is if you say something or people ask why you are pulling smaller, people will accuse of you of parsing, being a jerk or some other nonsense. Meanwhile, there's been plenty of times in the Expert roulette I go through every cooldown and I'm top or nearly dps and slowly die until the healer begins to cramp up keeping me alive because I went through and exhausted every cd and nuanced survivability I had.

[Zordrage]

I have tanked all EW dungeons as DRK and the only time i had any trouble was when i had Benefic spamming AST. All other times, proper CD management and healer who knows how to play is more than enough for all pulls. DRK self sustain is pretty much non existent and i can't really use my Invuln, but what else is new...

There is a difference in Doing it while feeling crap and overburdening the healer

Vs

Doing it while having fun and feeling that the class is good while you don't Burden the healers in your team.

We are not talking about that its possible or not while doing it.
we are talking about how load of crap it is for Both DRK and Healers while doing it compared to all the other tanks.

[Flay_wind]

There is a difference in Doing it while feeling crap and overburdening the healer

Vs

Doing it while having fun and feeling that the class is good while you don't Burden the healers in your team.

We are not talking about that its possible or not while doing it.
we are talking about how load of crap it is for Both DRK and Healers while doing it compared to all the other tanks.

What is this "overburdening the healer" crap are you talking about? Press more than one dps button? Or that other button? You know Cure I/Physik/Benefic. If so, then yes, having DRK in dungeons is definitely overburdening the healer.

[Visanis]

DRK hasn't lost any of its sustain since ShB, if anything DRK is now even tankier with the addition of oblation (even with it being trash in comparison to the other level 82 abilities). The other tanks have just gained way too much sustain in comparison.

If you seriously think DRK is bad and is too much for healers to handle (keep in mind that a lot of healers actually WANT to heal rather than mash aoe while only using ogcds, so it actually works out for them, try looking at the healer forum some time) then you're either out of your mind or really bad at DRK and require the crutch of busted mitigations.

If anything needs to happen to the tanks then it's the healing on PLD, WAR and GNB that needs reducing back to what they were before EW rather than buffing DRK to the point of never needing a healer too.

[Danelo]

DRKs kit hasn’t grown with the game. It’s defensive kit is generally the same as shb and oblation is nothing more than a poor man’s bandaid for dark mind being crap. Dungeons are a prime example of how devs geared this expansion to only 3 of 4 tanks.

[Xrison]

DRK hasn't lost any of its sustain since ShB, if anything DRK is now even tankier with the addition of oblation (even with it being trash in comparison to the other level 82 abilities). The other tanks have just gained way too much sustain in comparison.

Right, but the 81-90 content is quite a bit harder than SHB. This is like taking 4 people that were making $9/hr, and giving one of them a raise to $9.50 but the other 3 a raise to $15 and telling the first person that he's fine, because he's making more than he was previously, yet inflation has gone way up.

In other words, DRK's toolkit doesn't go as far as it did before Endwalker because it saw almost no improvements yet the content has gotten much more difficult to tank.