So this started happening.

[RatCopter]

I've had that happen once to me when I was leveling GNB, in the level 85 dungeon. Immediately got a SGE, double pulled everything and didn't really have too much of a problem outside the first pull. Granted, when you go from the WAR dungeon experience to DRK/GNB, it is a STARK difference in the amount of healer input required. On DRK specifically, I've had somewhat mixed results but I feel it's a little more comfortable than GNB. SCH's in particular have said to me that they were surprised how relatively little they had to do for me. Specific dungeons give me a hard time, notably Tower of Zot, and Smileton. God, the mobs hit so damn hard in Smileton.

I think the issue is less of sustain (though I would not say no to a healing buff for Abyssal Drain) and more of the issue that Dark Mind and Living Dead are absolutely useless. If DRK had a real invuln, I don't think healers would mind quite so much.

[Shurrikhan]

I don’t honestly believe those of you saying tbn is the great in dungeons don’t understand why it has problems... a shield doesn’t last long when you’re getting smacked around by a w2w number of mobs.

It's simpler than that, even.

Let's say I give you the option of a 25% shield that lasts at most 8 seconds or 25% mitigation for 8 seconds. The shield is superior if you would otherwise have taken less damage than your entire health pool over the next 8 seconds. The mitigation is superior if you would have taken more.

That's it.

[Zordrage]

You're telling me there's a 16-page thread screaming about tank healing being too high, but people are abandoning dungeons when they have to heal the tank that doesn't have as much healing? I love this.

i know right ?

DRK right now is the other side of the extreme.

DRK and Warrior are the 2 Extremes right now. they both need some serious tuning.

[Undeadfire]

[Valknut]

I could take Reprisal, Arm length, probably sentenial and rampart off my bars and still tank dungeons more effectively then a DRK.

The world is not full of statics. Any healer can heal any tank if he mashes his face into a keyboard. The problem is, you at least need them to do that if you are playing DRK. You don't need healers at all if you are playing WAR/PLD.

Stop treating the game like your static is the only one playing it, que up as DRG, find a bad DRK, and a bad WHM and see how other people have to live. Playing DRK well is not rewarding in the least, you get 0 benefit that other tanks are getting by Mashing all your shit while some PLD struggles to use his 2 Ogcd attacks.

STOP ACTING LIKE DRK DOESN'T HAVE ISSUES.

[ssunny2008]

STOP ACTING LIKE DRK DOESN'T HAVE ISSUES.

DRK don´t have any issues. It´s more about "player-made" issues imo. You and others here just compare tanks, but don´t look at the whole game.

- Every content can be played with any tank.
- Every tank is able to solo pretty much any boss unless you get a x-times stack. (DRK might even the boss for such stacks with his barrier.)
- The damage-income in current bossfights is pretty much not existent.
- Healers have not a lot to do and never use any GCD´s unless things go nuts.
- Big pulls are the only real fear and you´re even able to avoid them.
- There are only 2 dungeons with 2 addgroups which hit really hard, yes even WAR and PLD. I´ve seen both dieing at Zot last pull.
- Ppl, who´ve sit on high end gear the last year, running around with crapgear and new scalings now and judge "out of a comfortzone".

Tanks have been broken since SHB. WAR is even more broken with the buffed skills now, that´s something i agree with. But why does the rest needs to be on that level? Why does WAR not just get a nerf? PLD might be somehow easy-mode with clemency too, but atleast you need to sacrifice something. On the other hand you´ve DRK with top damage. So... should we upgrade WAR or PLD on the DRK level of damage output?

There is no need to make everything so braindead and broken as WAR is imo, when all tanks are way too strong if we look at the games overall state. The real issue is that tanks have been broken way too long already, so ppl don´t want to leave their comfortzone and want everything being a no-brainer instead of using defs correctly and to give the healer finally his job back.

[saber_alter]

DRK don´t have any issues.

categorically false.

It´s more about "player-made" issues imo. You and others here just compare tanks, but don´t look at the whole game.

you're projecting.

- Every content can be played with any tank.

true, though with caveats.

- Every tank is able to solo pretty much any boss unless you get a x-times stack. (DRK might even the boss for such stacks with his barrier.)
- The damage-income in current bossfights is pretty much not existent.
- Healers have not a lot to do and never use any GCD´s unless things go nuts.

somewhat true, though healers having nothing to do is not a problem that needs to be solved. dungeons aren't designed to be challenging, if a healer is lacking for things to do that should be a *good thing.*

- Big pulls are the only real fear and you´re even able to avoid them.

big pulls are indeed not necessary, though it's a bit of a lose lose. I'm not against playing it safe, but patience is a virtue that not everyone has.

- There are only 2 dungeons with 2 addgroups which hit really hard, yes even WAR and PLD. I´ve seen both dieing at Zot last pull.
- Ppl, who´ve sit on high end gear the last year, running around with crapgear and new scalings now and judge "out of a comfortzone".

extra damage on the last pull of zot is something i've noticed, though it hasn't been an issue for me on paladin. the latter on the other hand is given with any expansion. Not everyone is a raider, and not everyone has been told how tome gear works after an expack drops.

Tanks have been broken since SHB. WAR is even more broken with the buffed skills now, that´s something i agree with. But why does the rest needs to be on that level? Why does WAR not just get a nerf? PLD might be somehow easy-mode with clemency too, but atleast you need to sacrifice something. On the other hand you´ve DRK with top damage. So... should we upgrade WAR or PLD on the DRK level of damage output?

dark knight's damage is overstated, and even then damage is just a number. it can be adjusted. War does need it's aoe healing potential reduced a bit, i'll agree; in EX trials however it is within expectations. Paladins don't need to use clemency in dungeons at all, holy spirit does enough healing when you get the trait, and the healers should be able to keep you up if you're properly cycling cds.

There is no need to make everything so braindead and broken as WAR is imo, when all tanks are way too strong if we look at the games overall state. The real issue is that tanks have been broken way too long already, so ppl don´t want to leave their comfortzone and want everything being a no-brainer instead of using defs correctly and to give the healer finally his job back.

Dungeons have been braindead since ARR, no reason why they wouldn't be now.

[Zordrage]

DRK don´t have any issues. It´s more about "player-made" issues imo. You and others here just compare tanks, but don´t look at the whole game.

- Every content can be played with any tank.
- Every tank is able to solo pretty much any boss unless you get a x-times stack. (DRK might even the boss for such stacks with his barrier.)
- The damage-income in current bossfights is pretty much not existent.
- Healers have not a lot to do and never use any GCD´s unless things go nuts.
- Big pulls are the only real fear and you´re even able to avoid them.
- There are only 2 dungeons with 2 addgroups which hit really hard, yes even WAR and PLD. I´ve seen both dieing at Zot last pull.
- Ppl, who´ve sit on high end gear the last year, running around with crapgear and new scalings now and judge "out of a comfortzone".

Tanks have been broken since SHB. WAR is even more broken with the buffed skills now, that´s something i agree with. But why does the rest needs to be on that level? Why does WAR not just get a nerf? PLD might be somehow easy-mode with clemency too, but atleast you need to sacrifice something. On the other hand you´ve DRK with top damage. So... should we upgrade WAR or PLD on the DRK level of damage output?

There is no need to make everything so braindead and broken as WAR is imo, when all tanks are way too strong if we look at the games overall state. The real issue is that tanks have been broken way too long already, so ppl don´t want to leave their comfortzone and want everything being a no-brainer instead of using defs correctly and to give the healer finally his job back.

we are not talking about that its impossible to to do stuff with DRK we are talking about how SHIT is it to do it with a DRK compared to the other Tanks.
your constantly jumping on this.

[Xrison]

we are not talking about that its impossible to to do stuff with DRK we are talking about how SHIT is it to do it with a DRK compared to the other Tanks.
your constantly jumping on this.

From what I've seen in most newer content, a very well played DRK is still overall inferior to a half way decently played WAR, PLD, or even GNB. Yes, it has potential to do the most damage of the 4, but at a significant disadvantage to sustainability.

[Yeol]

DRK was good when the other tanks didn't have as much sustain as they do now. With Endlwaker, all tanks got a big upgrade to their short mitigation, except DRK. This upgrade made all tanks better than DRK.

Oblation (60s CD) should have been merged with TBN (15s CD). Remove the MP cost from TBN and make it a 25s CD. Why increase unnecessary button bloat where you have to use Oblation and TBN separately? And why keep the MP cost to punish DRK DPS if the shield doesn't break?