Jobs start level and why it is bad to start so high

[FusiaRain]

So.. to make yourself feel better about valuing paying money to spend your time killing imaginary monsters to make someone who isn't you imginarily stronger you belittle people who like seeing pretty things?


Dude.. it's all video games. People are having fun, your fun isn't "better" or more worthwhile than theirs.

A not belittle just stating the fact playing dress up isn't a value that's a benefit of doing things OF VALUE...

that's like saying I belittle a chef for putting value on the meat before cooking it lol.


Also Its more about Working, grinding pouring in hours to get stronger to not only kill monsters but flat out butcher the players in duels/pvp

[Floortank]

For me getting a job at level 70 already is very overwhelming.
I prefer to just start at level 1 tbh and then by the time I get to the 81 dungeons I know my job, unlike some other Sages i've already met..
It would be nice to have the option I think, because I would start lower than 70 60 or 50.

Most DPS Jobs don't function this way. You can basically throw away everything you learn about most of them before 80. New SMN is an exception.

[Saraide]

For me getting a job at level 70 already is very overwhelming.
I prefer to just start at level 1 tbh and then by the time I get to the 81 dungeons I know my job, unlike some other Sages i've already met..
It would be nice to have the option I think, because I would start lower than 70 60 or 50.

If you really wanted to you could just do every dungeon in order. Nothing stops you from doing that. What makes people better at their jobs is not a low starting level but the will to improve. If you have that then you will be fine regardless of starting level, if you dont have that you will be a sandbag regardless of starting level.

[Tsukino]

I personally enjoy the process of leveling up and and getting new stuff along the way, and I care very little for the monotony of grinding for gear that will be useless in a few weeks that comes at the end of that process. I also agree that I have no attachment to jobs that I played for like a week because they started 20 levels from the cap. However, I can also easily see that there are a lot of other players who are the exact opposite - they feel like leveling up is a boring grind while running EX/Savage is fun because it still requires focus even after you've figured out the challenge.

I don't know why people argue about either of these things or any other variations like their opinion is going to suddenly convince people who don't like the same parts of the game, but regardless it's one of many things that makes it hard for MMOs to please all of their players at once. FFXIV has decided that its compromise will be 20 levels from the cap, and they seem to be attached to their "content formulae" above a lot of other concerns so it's likely to remain this way for the foreseeable future. I do wonder if there might be a better way to make a compromise than simply to pick a number of levels that have to be gained, but I have no clue what this could be.

[Krotoan]

A not belittle just stating the fact playing dress up isn't a value that's a benefit of doing things OF VALUE...

like.. killing imaginary monsters? Sorry.. that has no value either. Putting together an aesthetically pleasing outfit is just as valuable a skill.. in fact an eye for aesthetically pleasing arrangements is a marketable skill. Much more so than anything you'd develop mindlessly grinding monsters to be "stronger".

And calling people "pathetic" for liking something.. is belittling them.

that's like saying I belittle a chef for putting value on the meat before cooking it lol.

Being a chef is a difficult skill to learn that produces real results that are of real value to people. Incomparable to someone who becomes marginally good at a video game or in your example simply sinks hours into it. You are putting value on something worthless and saying it's better than something else virtual and worthless. Just because you value the process, doesn't mean you're better than people who value the results.

Also Its more about Working, grinding pouring in hours to get stronger to not only kill monsters but flat out butcher the players in duels/pvp

If you are playing a game as "work", you are doing the whole thing wrong. You should be having fun and on that note again, your enjoyment of the process is no better or worse than someones enjoyment of the results. I don't play games because I find the investment "worthwhile" or particularly fulfilling. I play games because I enjoy the experience and in that there is value.

[FusiaRain]

like.. killing imaginary monsters? Sorry.. that has no value either. Putting together an aesthetically pleasing outfit is just as valuable a skill.. in fact an eye for aesthetically pleasing arrangements is a marketable skill. Much more so than anything you'd develop mindlessly grinding monsters to be "stronger".

And calling people "pathetic" for liking something.. is belittling them.



Being a chef is a difficult skill to learn that produces real results that are of real value to people. Incomparable to someone who becomes marginally good at a video game or in your example simply sinks hours into it. You are putting value on something worthless and saying it's better than something else virtual and worthless. Just because you value the process, doesn't mean you're better than people who value the results.



If you are playing a game as "work", you are doing the whole thing wrong. You should be having fun and on that note again, your enjoyment of the process is no better or worse than someones enjoyment of the results. I don't play games because I find the investment "worthwhile" or particularly fulfilling. I play games because I enjoy the experience and in that there is value.

lol You imply I can in real life build weapons and genetic modify monsters to wipe people out for fun to enjoy the work? Working at gaining power is a thing people can enjoy, just like grinding a Pokémon's evs to max so you wipe the floor with the inferior ones. Because that is what i take pleasure in the power that brings chaos to make things interesting

[Krotoan]

lol You imply I can in real life build weapons and genetic modify monsters to wipe people out for fun to enjoy the work?

I know a blacksmith who makes weapons and other things. I know people who work to create (theoretical) biological weapons and machines that have the potential to kill people. I know people who train their actual bodies to do amazing things.

You compare these to some number values stored on some computer somewhere that you bought by spending some of your real life on inputting other number values. ... hmm. Which one of these pursuits results in something valuable?

Working at gaining power is a thing people can enjoy, just like grinding a Pokémon's evs to max so you wipe the floor with the inferior ones. Because that is what i take pleasure in the power that brings chaos to make things interesting

Yes, you can enjoy it. However my entire point is your enjoyment isn't better or more valuable than anyone elses. Your idea that you're "bringing chaos" to anything is pretty funny though. Again, you're playing a video game. Calm down.

[Saraide]

lol You imply I can in real life build weapons and genetic modify monsters to wipe people out for fun to enjoy the work? Working at gaining power is a thing people can enjoy, just like grinding a Pokémon's evs to max so you wipe the floor with the inferior ones. Because that is what i take pleasure in the power that brings chaos to make things interesting

And because you enjoy that type of game design, everyone else has to aswell or they are considered pathetic? That's how you come across in this thread.

[FusiaRain]

I know a blacksmith who makes weapons and other things. I know people who work to create (theoretical) biological weapons and machines that have the potential to kill people. I know people who train their actual bodies to do amazing things.

You compare these to some number values stored on some computer somewhere that you bought by spending some of your real life on inputting other number values. ... hmm. Which one of these pursuits results in something valuable?




Yes, you can enjoy it. However my entire point is your enjoyment isn't better or more valuable than anyone elses. Your idea that you're "bringing chaos" to anything is pretty funny though. Again, you're playing a video game. Calm down.

I love how people say its the video game without taking into account why people play video games sometimes.

Many people play them to let their inner desires run free, desires that would get you locked up or killed in real life. Desires that are always apart of a person that they use the games as an way to be their inner self

And because you enjoy that type of game design, everyone else has to aswell or they are considered pathetic? That's how you come across in this thread.

First off the shoe fits on both feet saying leveling doesn't matter or excusing it from existing to a reasonable point and be slowly erased your doing the exact same as your accussing me as.

The difference is if you want to do that fine, but do not delete and erase the experience of growth to power from people because your to lazy to gain and work for levels.

if you want to value it fine value it but do not erase what others can and some do value


[since stupid bs cap on post system]

There is nothing stopping you from spamming Brayflox as a reaper. I would rather not, so Im glad I can jump into things I enjoy sooner.

it does stop me from getting certain gear and the full experience because even with level sync you still have all that power and over cap it and it prevents from honestly seeing what that gear will be like having during the low levels on the job... since no matter what your gear is 70+

You are ignoring the context of the quote. Leveling doesnt matter for being good at that job or not, that requires the will to improve and you can have that or not regardless of the starting level. I've said it multiple times in this thread already: if you wish to go through every leveling dungeon in order starting from sastasha you are completely free to do so. You could queue up right now. If you find that fun, go for it, be the totorak reaper you've always wanted to be.

like above leveling sync and all that removes so much from experiencing it.

You get no growth no development on the job its striped down weapon options that you can level up and earn for..


but okay using everyones excuse then lets remove levels completely since noone wants to work and gain power and develop their character through leveling and grinding lets just remove it all and give out the hand outs of max gear and all that. You would see how pointless games like this are without power devolpment

You are ignoring the context of the quote. Leveling doesnt matter for being good at that job or not, that requires the will to improve and you can have that or not regardless of the starting level. I've said it multiple times in this thread already: if you wish to go through every leveling dungeon in order starting from sastasha you are completely free to do so. You could queue up right now. If you find that fun, go for it, be the totorak reaper you've always wanted to be.

again level sync down only simulates that you are working for power since your been given the hand out it doesn't matter..



WHEN SO MUCH OF THE GAME is only given a point for one ONE part of the game then there is problem so many things are useless for the majority of the game and excuse it for "well go do this and it has a point" MEANS IT HAS NO POINT if its limited to that

[DinahDemiurge]

I agree I think all jobs should start at level 1. It kind of robs the experience otherwise.