Tank healing is to high

[Shurrikhan]

Former DRK mains could be asking to take self-sustain away from other tanks if you’d prefer?

Honestly, that sounds preferable, yeah.

DRK should have a bit more, but some (WAR comes to mind), should have considerably less.

[ssunny2008]

Sorry but "this one tank should stay gimped because if all 4 are broken then the whole game will be!"? It already is - on top of one of the tanks feeling like crap to play. Two wrongs don't make a right and whatnot.

If you mean me, you should read carefully. If anything... i claimed is that all tanks are broken and WAR even above them. DRK is NOT gimped. It just plays different than pressing one button to overheal yourself. And if something feels like crap to play or not is highly subjective isn´t it? There i even need to ask a question:

What is crap for you? Since the whole topic is about self-sustain, is it that? If so, why don´t you play WAR which is pretty similar but runs around with HP and selheals instead of MR and barriers? What hinders you or others, the aesthetics? Seriously think about it... DRK is WAR with different defs. Why should it get a selfheal on top? Why do we need such a homogenization? Was SHB not enough, so we have to dumbdown everything even more in EW?

If the content isn´t going to bitchslap tanks out of nowhere, all of them need a nerf. Healers have pretty much nothing to do and if they´ve in standard pulls, well... then the tank is not a good tank.

(And seriously... BLN -> Abyssal -> BLN instead of Bloodwhetting / Equilibrium, it works. Bosses don´t matter anyway with BLN and 123 heal.)

[Hammerhorn]

This thread is too High!

[ThorneDynasty]

You have to be in complete denial if you think DRK is on par with WAR of all things. One can barely sustain themselves in situations where the other can solo heal 4 players. You are framing this in the vacuum of perfect EX runs where no one takes any extra damage, which is not how 99% of the game works. Just because it literally doesn't matter what comp you have in perfectly honed farm runs doesn't mean no job has inherent advantages and disadvantages. Strong self and party sustain is clearly a important part of the role design now, you disagreeing with that design won't change that, and it has an near universal advantage that's not made up by anything else in DRK toolkit.

[ssunny2008]

You have to be in complete denial if you think DRK is on par with WAR of all things. One can barely sustain themselves in situations where the other can solo heal 4 players. You are framing this in the vacuum of perfect EX runs where no one takes any extra damage, which is not how 99% of the game works. Just because it literally doesn't matter what comp you have in perfectly honed farm runs doesn't mean no job has inherent advantages and disadvantages. Strong self and party sustain is clearly a important part of the role design now, you disagreeing with that design won't change that, and it has an near universal advantage that's not made up by anything else in DRK toolkit.

Again you don´t read properly. I´ve said that WAR is stronger than the others with teammember-heal, but the core rotation of DRK and WAR is pretty similar. So far, if you want "super broken" instead of "just broken" self-sustain, why don´t you play WAR?

And i´m not talking about 100% perfect playing farmgroups, i speak from my experience playing any tank with any groups out there. Randoms, mates, i do always the same and it just doesn´t matter. Tanks are broken, WAR is broken, PLD is broken, GNB is broken, DRK is broken. No need to homogenize them even more, when they actually need nerfs and / or the content huge buffs.

Have you checked the link i´ve posted? WAR + PLD + double reaper and 4 dancers clearing a new EX primal without a healer and some of them ate extra hits. This game has bigger issues than claims like "DRK is not on par in self-sustain, SE pls!", just because ppl don´t rotate with their defs correctly or spam EoD instead of BLN for safe damage.

[NyneSwordz]

These threads are toxic and I wish SE still perma banned people for this.

[RobynDaBank]

These threads are toxic and I wish SE still perma banned people for this.

Still? People actually got permanent banned for such threads? (I'm genuinely curious)

[NyneSwordz]

Yeah they did. Back in stormblood and before.

[Lyth]

The main point of the self-healing changes it to make tanking comfy. What typically happens with beginner tanks is that they see their HP bar dropping below about 70% or so, and then they start panicking. They then blow through all their cooldowns or start raging at their healer. They also tend to lack an awareness of damage patterns, causing them to react too late and forcing their healer to burn resources to dig them out of the hole they put the team in. On-demand self-healing solves both of these problems. It also makes beginner tanks feel more in control of the situation, now that pretty much anyone can pick up a tank and solo something regardless of skill.

I also think that it makes sense for PLD and WAR to be most invested in self-healing, lore aside. If you load up a game for the first time and choose to pick up a sword or an axe, these are the two jobs you'll probably end up playing as your gateway into tanking. It's a much longer investment to complete through to Heavensward, jump into the Brume in Ishgard, and start levelling DRK back up from 30, and if you're doing all that, you've probably already know what you want to get into.

If self-sustain was intended to be a skilled endeavor, it would be timing dependent (i.e. press button to reverse damage received over the past 2 seconds, up to X% of your total HP.) That puts you into a situation where you still have to understand the damage pattern, and you're less likely to recover from a slip up. If DRK was to go the self-healing route, that's what I would personally prefer. But I think that the bubbles are equally interesting, and I'm really hoping that they just double down and turn it into a thematic focus. Nothing says that a tank has to have % damage reduction abilities at all. You can do everything with flat damage reduction if you know the damage numbers.

They might tone down some of these numbers depending on how the raid tier is tuned, but like it or not, this is likely a deliberate change to make tanks more accessible for newer players. If you're looking for carry potential in harder content that you won't be able to solo, paradoxically you may have to look elsewhere.

[ThorneDynasty]

Again you don´t read properly. I´ve said that WAR is stronger than the others with teammember-heal, but the core rotation of DRK and WAR is pretty similar. So far, if you want "super broken" instead of "just broken" self-sustain, why don´t you play WAR?

And i´m not talking about 100% perfect playing farmgroups, i speak from my experience playing any tank with any groups out there. Randoms, mates, i do always the same and it just doesn´t matter. Tanks are broken, WAR is broken, PLD is broken, GNB is broken, DRK is broken. No need to homogenize them even more, when they actually need nerfs and / or the content huge buffs.

Have you checked the link i´ve posted? WAR + PLD + double reaper and 4 dancers clearing a new EX primal without a healer and some of them ate extra hits. This game has bigger issues than claims like "DRK is not on par in self-sustain, SE pls!", just because ppl don´t rotate with their defs correctly or spam EoD instead of BLN for safe damage.

You are all but admitting DRK is weak, to the point where you are pointing out the job shouldn't even be played right now looking at the efficiency. So I don't get your hostility to the point being made. And like I said, it's not all about self-sustain even. Good self mitigation is a given now, what sets the tanks apart is their ability to sustain the party and take off pressure from healers.

Asking for more of it for DRK is entirely reasonable with the current design choices - there's no sign they'll change their mind about healers any time soon, but balancing the tanks is at least somewhat likely. Just because you disagree with their direction with tanks and healing (not too jazzed myself) doesn't mean they shouldn't be balanced within their current objectives.