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  1. #1
    Player
    Havenchild's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    Gridania
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    990
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    Avalen Koma
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    Gilgamesh
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    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lersayil View Post
    Unless Grahas time travel was also a part of a yet unexplored closed time loop, or some sort of self correcting fate kinda situation going on in the background, mending the broken time loop the WoLs death caused.

    ...I like time travel shenanigans, but yeah, I'm also starting to get a headache.
    I'm not sure this needs to be explained persay. There is enough room to assume that in the timeline Crystal Exarch comes from, your particular WoL was not chosen by Hydaelyn because you made it into the past. In SHB, they explained that when the meteor showers occured (vestiges of the Final Days), people around the world awakened to the echo. At least on the First, you know this happened several times in history. I would imagine the same applies to the Source.

    If you make the assumption that Hydaelyn was just reaching out to people at random in that timeline, there's enough room to assume she just hit your WoL too. I think alot of people are hung on the fact that Hydaelyn refers to you as her chosen, but that you had to have gone back into the past to be "chosen". But that's not necessarily true as evidenced by many others having the Echo simultaneously on the Source / First.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    Lersayil's Avatar
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    Jan 2019
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    Character
    Lhei Amariyo
    World
    Lich
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    Samurai Lv 91
    Quote Originally Posted by Havenchild View Post
    I'm not sure this needs to be explained persay. There is enough room to assume that in the timeline Crystal Exarch comes from, your particular WoL was not chosen by Hydaelyn because you made it into the past. In SHB, they explained that when the meteor showers occured (vestiges of the Final Days), people around the world awakened to the echo. At least on the First, you know this happened several times in history. I would imagine the same applies to the Source.

    If you make the assumption that Hydaelyn was just reaching out to people at random in that timeline, there's enough room to assume she just hit your WoL too. I think alot of people are hung on the fact that Hydaelyn refers to you as her chosen, but that you had to have gone back into the past to be "chosen". But that's not necessarily true as evidenced by many others having the Echo simultaneously on the Source / First.
    This would assume however, that basically we changed nothing by going back to the past, and Venat would have done everything exactly the same without her knowledge of the things to come, or even the main reason behind the Final Days. While possible, I personally dislike this explanation. Too many decisions leading to the same outcomes via different reasons.

    If nothing else, her secrecy and vague guidance was attributed directly to the fact that she did not want to risk changing the events that lead to us going back in time and talking to her.
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    Havenchild's Avatar
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    Gridania
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    Avalen Koma
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    Gilgamesh
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    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lersayil View Post
    This would assume however, that basically we changed nothing by going back to the past, and Venat would have done everything exactly the same without her knowledge of the things to come, or even the main reason behind the Final Days. While possible, I personally dislike this explanation. Too many decisions leading to the same outcomes via different reasons.

    If nothing else, her secrecy and vague guidance was attributed directly to the fact that she did not want to risk changing the events that lead to us going back in time and talking to her.
    There is no reason for us to assume that she knows of the Final Days, because of us coming from the future. The Final Days were fated to happen. Our presence in Elpis literally means zero for causing the Final Days in the past for example because Meteion would have given the same report to Hermes, and the Meteion sisters were already released before we arrived. So the Final Days in the past, are not caused or prevented by our presence, but for us to exist in *sundered form* does mean that even in a timeline where we are unable to go to the past, Venat still determined that at the very least this was the only option. It's kinda proven in her dialog in Elpis when she first hears the news, and comes to the same conclusion that she would have did this if she felt there was no other way.

    There's also the whole point of the Forum's "Goal" and the Lopporits. The initial plan was NOT WoL saving the star but for mankind to flee it. She didn't even plan the journey to Meteion. This was evidenced in the design of the moon ship which was confirmed to not be able to make the journey to the edge of the universe by itself.
    The journey to the past is what CREATES the second option to begin with. While shoddy, nothing particularly breaks even within the closed loop of time that leads to the ultimate conclusion.

    The only rules of time travel that existed persay was what Elidibus told us:

    "You cannot change events of the past, the future you must return to exists because of the Final Days" -> This future however can be manufacturered and be interpreted differently ultimately. This is the exact same logic that was used in Steins;Gate anime.

    It's time travel shenanigans for sure, but it definitely leaves enough room to make a possibility that doesn't break anything.
    (3)
    Last edited by Havenchild; 12-22-2021 at 12:50 PM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Evergrey's Avatar
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    Rexipher Evergrey
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    Odin
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    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lersayil View Post
    This would assume however, that basically we changed nothing by going back to the past, and Venat would have done everything exactly the same without her knowledge of the things to come, or even the main reason behind the Final Days. While possible, I personally dislike this explanation. Too many decisions leading to the same outcomes via different reasons.

    If nothing else, her secrecy and vague guidance was attributed directly to the fact that she did not want to risk changing the events that lead to us going back in time and talking to her.
    The thing is, her decisions weren't based because she would've done so even if we didn't time travel, she did it because we did time travel.
    Time travel works that it has already happened before you even time travel, it's un avoidable.
    There was never a "present" when she didn't know of what to come.
    (3)

  5. #5
    Player
    Hysorn's Avatar
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    Character
    Laudrian Ravenstorm
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    Faerie
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    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Evergrey View Post
    The thing is, her decisions weren't based because she would've done so even if we didn't time travel, she did it because we did time travel.
    Time travel works that it has already happened before you even time travel, it's un avoidable.
    There was never a "present" when she didn't know of what to come.
    AKA we are a causal loop paradox.
    (3)

  6. #6
    Player
    Evergrey's Avatar
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    Rexipher Evergrey
    World
    Odin
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    Dark Knight Lv 100
    We are pretty much the reason to the Sundering.
    As Venat said herself when the WoL talked about the future that she can't think of a reason as to why her future self would become Hydaelyn.
    Perhaps she too would've supported the birth of Zodiark and there would never be a sundering if she didn't know.
    (2)