Quote Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan View Post
Not all women want to be "strong" all the time. There's no need for them to permanently be around people in whose presence they have to be "strong". That's the point of that server.

You're mistaking me arguing for women-only environments in principle with me saying I have to defend women from men on the internet.

Where the rest of your reply even came from is beyond me.
I'm only replying to this because at the time of writing it, it's the most recent thing you've posted in this thread. It's not an actual reply to the argument you're having with this person, and I don't want to be percieved as agreeing with them because I don't. A lot of their argument stems from "but what if the majority is discriminated against too????? Checkmate, lib!" and I'm not about that. With that said...
I appreciate where you're coming from, trust me I do.

But I'd like for you to understand some major things - and I'd also like to preface this by saying that you're not doing or saying anything inherently wrong per se. Just ignorant - and not out of malice, I don't think, because you sound extremely genuine.

1. To imply that voice verification would be okay in a women-only environment is harmful rhetoric. Not only because transwomen exist and are women despite whatever number of things prevent them from sounding "womanly enough" - but because ciswomen face consistent sexism from other women if they, too, are not "womanly enough." From clothes, to hairstyles, to makeup, to their voice. There is a consistent battle to be perceived as "womanly" - From "Not Like Other Girls," and their constant fear of being perceived as "too feminine but not feminine enough," to "pick me's" who want to be perceived as either the perfect woman or the perfect "just like the guys" friend. How does one "sus out" the men 'pretending' to be women from actual women? Where is the line drawn?

2. Backboarding off of the first thing I mentioned - the fear of men invading womens spaces, while a valid fear borne out of a need for safety and security, inherently leads to extremely transphobic rhetoric that also stinks of mild classism as well. And I'm not talking about SJW-transphobia, where someone mistakenly calling someone by their wrong pronoun is seen as the scum of the earth. I'm talking about actual, legitimate transphobia. The kind of rhetoric that keeps us going backwards in progress. "You can't afford facial-feminization surgery? You're not a woman, then. You'll be given the male role." "You can't afford vocal surgery and have only done vocal exercises? You're not a woman then, so you'll ALSO be given the male role." "You're afraid of being perceived as trans in a transphobic county where outwardly presenting as such could lead to your death? You'll, also, be given the male role of supporter. We don't recognize you as a woman unless you're willing to put your life at risk, or spend money you don't have, to present as a woman."


3. I appreciate the need for a private space to congregate with other women who share experiences, however... this server is big enough that it can no longer hide behind "private server, private rules." It is a community server, or at the very least attempting to become a community server, and is already large-scale. As such, there needs to be a level of separation between personal beliefs (however flawed and TERFy they are...) and public image. Publicly, they present themselves in an extremely unprofessional manner, and if you want to support a women-only safe space I would not support this server as, disregarding everything said above, they are exploitative and seem to only be in this to make money off of women who don't know better.

I've said it before, there's nothing wrong with creating a safe community for women. It's when that community becomes ... this ... that it becomes an issue.